Re: UNIONS ????

Posted by Billy NY on June 12, 2009 at 06:53:48 from (74.67.3.238):

In Reply to: UNIONS ???? posted by MTC on June 11, 2009 at 17:57:02:

The building construction trade unions, don't seem to have the problems the manufacturing industry has, at least where I have worked. This discussion always ends up in the same direction, for/against etc., so take it with a grain of salt.

As a manager, I have dealt with all the building construction trades, mostly unionized trades, but have done a fair amount at different times that was open shop. Both can be good, and some of the open shops pay a competitive wage, provide good apprenticeship training, some are not worth a bucket of spit, and sometimes reflecting back I would prefer union trades hands down, because of the knowledge, experience, comradery and pride possessed by same. But, you do have to realize a good open shop, mangaged and operated can be just effective, so it mostly boils down to way a company is run, and the people that make up the work force.

In the construction industry, management still has plenty of power to keep things straight with union trades, some of the crap I read in these posts like where guys punch out early, have others vouch, use the union contract to protect same, is not something that would be tolerated. From my experience, most of these trouble makers will be sent down the road, they know, their B.A's know, delegates and other higher up union officials all know that this kind of crap just won't be tolerated, if they want to play games, we can too, and eventually we will circumnavigate or corner them on it, because no construction company can afford BS slack and people that are not productive, you hurt the company, you hurt yourself, it's very clear that any union contractor can be put out of business by non-productive high cost labor, so if they pull a bunch of crap, their members will sit on the bench eventually.

In short, management and labor does not need to be adversarial and at a constant stalemate in the work place. In my experience I figured out ways to work with, yet not take any crap, it's my job to get things done and do it within the parameters given the contract price we have. Unions make owners pay a premium for their buildings and other projects, so they owe it to the company they work for and those owners to be productive and do high quality work. That premise is enforced by a good manager, superintendent, foreman etc. if that becomes upside down, the contract loses money, the company suffers a loss and before you know it they are in trouble, especially smaller outfits, but I have seen large ones take some hard hits as well. I've never had a delegate or B.A, come back at me for firing someone, ever in my career, once you are a known player, they will recognize that if you keep your end of the bargain on the union contract, and one of their people does not measure up or is a problem, they will be terminated for cause period,

Many of the problems occur when contracting outfits try to screw the unions on the contract, try to cut corners and pull other crap, and I commend all the unions for standing their ground on that.

This kind of labor is high cost, for owners and contractors, the numbers on a job have to work for both, and yes unions are a bit greedy, but we as managers still make it work, and make them produce or hit the road, it cannot be any other way, if the unions had a strangle hold like they do in some manufacturing industries, construction projects would become too costly and they would root themselves right out of the business, open shops would become prevalent, even in NYC, where union construction trades are very strong, and is where I spent 15 years dealing with same.

There are always individuals that can be real pains in the @sses, I've dealt with plenty of those, things like busting chops about the benefit payments to the local, jurisdictional disputes, standby trades, like a shop steward, or teamster steward, you get jerks in those positions it will leave a bad taste in your mouth, but nonetheless they can be dealt with just the same, you don't butt heads, you negotiate the curves and keep moving, sooner or later it will get resolved, as the project must get done and it's that urgency, time being of the essence which drives this, unlike manufacturing.

Ironically, you can also have some great people in those positions, I worked with some really good union people in NYC, stewards and standby trades, by contract, those standby provisions do cost a company significantly so when a guy in that position is good about it, does some work, is helpful, cooperative, they represent the union well, vs being an obstinate clock watching bench warmer.

Somehow it all still works but it takes a good manager to do so, some individuals I've dealt with have punched a big hole in a project budget, but every time, like an operating engineer who stopped our work numerous times, causing the company to pay costly downtime for an erection crew of ironworkers. He would cite excessive wind knowing we could not measure it, and all kinds of other crap to stop work. If the benefits were not in his check, and it was called for by contract to be that way, most companies lagged behind but always paid, he stamped his feet and would not budge, mind you, not even I would tolerate a company that did not pay the bills, so I went out of the way to the hall myself and paid weekly by certified check to shut him up, also told him it ticked me off that my word was not good enough, having a solid reputation with the O.E. local and the crane outfit I did business with in regards to the bills, my ironworkers knew I stood up for them, he just could not get it through his head, if you are on my job the money is good. He finally got to me, so I said enough, called the crane outfit, sent both the cranes back and told the owner of this very large crane outfit, I do not ever want to see this operator on one of my sites ever again, if you want my business. By union rules, I had 2 of their cranes on site this guy had seniority so I could not send him back and keep the other guy. This guy was full of himself too, I'm the engineer on the job, look at me ! My only out was to cancel both cranes, and rehire same with another operator, he did not think I would do it, the GC was livid because of the lost time on the project, which I knew we could make up, it really put me in a bad spot, but I did what I had to do to get rid of this guy, just not going to pay high dollar labor for a jerk, in the end he lost, they push I push right back but I win, never even had to speak to a B.A. at the O.E. local, just did what I had to solve the problem. This is the kind of example where a union member can cause a lot of grief, and get costly, fortunately, there are ways to deal with it, if there was not, they only hurt themselves in the long run.

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