Re: Please help, 1st time painter

Posted by Rod (NH) on August 25, 2005 at 16:56:10 from (64.140.200.138):

In Reply to: Re: Please help, 1st time painter posted by Brad in WI on August 25, 2005 at 11:41:40:

While I prefer generally not to advocate different manufacturer's products on the same job, I think your plan will work OK. Just make sure you use the OMNI reducers and catalyst that are intended for the 181 and the 170. The 181 is a lacquer-type surfacer. The problem with lacquer-type surfacers is that people tend to put them on in too heavy coats and in rapid succession. They dry fast but in heavy applications, the surface skins over and it appears to be dry but solvents are still being evaporated from the layer(s) underneath. If sanded and topcoated too soon, they are subject to continued evaporation and shrinkage back into the sandscratches. This would result in the scratches showing up afterwards. It's best to apply many lighter coats and allow a liberal amount of dry time between them to assure all the solvents in the film have evaporated. The good thing about them is they do not require an additive that contains isocyanates. And neither does the 170. The catalyst for that is iso-free.

Depending on your local air-emission laws, you may have to purchase the MS250 for the 181 instead of the standard MR reducers. The MS250 is an exempt solvent (basically acetone). Check with your supplier first before you buy any MR reducer. I once bought some 181 and was forced to buy the MS250 along with it at the same time, even though I had plenty of the standard MR reducers on hand - which can be used since they are on the tech sheet for the 181. If you do use an MR reducer in the 181, I'd recommend a slower than normal one for the temp involved. It's easy to wind up with a dry spray with a fast reducer in a lacquer based product.

Be aware that I have never used the exact combination of products that you mention. I simply believe that you would not have a compatibility problem using them. The 181 over 170 is per the tech sheet so the risk there is zero - no problem. The only issue in whether there is something in the solvents used in the 2150 that could cause a problem with a lacquer-type surfacer. I doubt it, but can't guarantee anything. I think it would be worth a small test sprayout to be sure. If there were to be a problem, I think the fix would be a coat of reduced (per tech sheet) MP170 over the 181 to act as a sealer prior to the 2150. You could even do that anyway as an insurance item. I am very confident there would be no problem with 2150 direct on 170. Don't forget the time window you'll be dealing with on the 170.

I am not familiar enough with DuPont's NASON line to comment specifically. I don't know what the 414 stuff is at all. I don't see it listed on DuPont's website. NASON is DuPont's "value" line of products and should be similar in cost and quality to PPG's OMNI. I do know that NASON's Ful-Cryl II acrylic enamel cannot be used without an iso-containing hardener. That's unlike the OMNI MAE acrylic enamel. In fact, it's unlike most acrylic enamels. The devil is always in the details.

Follow Ups:

• Re: Please help, 1st time painter Brad in WI 23:37:47 08/25/05 (4)
  • Re: Please help, 1st time painter Rod (NH) 17:59:29 08/26/05 (2)
    • Re: Please help, 1st time painter CNKS 20:16:53 08/26/05 (1)
      • Re: Please help, 1st time painter Rod (NH) 17:44:35 08/27/05 (0)
  • Re: Please help, 1st time painter CNKS 13:50:10 08/26/05 (0)

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