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Re: Fish and game wardens and some problems


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Posted by docmirror on November 01, 2016 at 10:04:28 from (144.49.197.22):

In Reply to: Fish and game wardens and some problems posted by jocco on October 29, 2016 at 08:18:16:

Well, none of these anecdotal situations are remotely legal. That doesn't mean that many LEO don't get away with it, just that they are blatantly illegal search and seizure. It might get past a local/muni judge, but a county or state judge will toss 99.9% of them, the problem is the cost to get it in front of the right jurist.

There are two well known, and semi-respected exceptions to the 4th amendment. First is the 100 mile border rule for CBP(18 USC, 1357(a)). However, this is starting to change as more and more CPB warrantless searches are being overturned. In some cases, other agencies are working in a 'co-op' with the CBP in an attempt to legitimize searches outside the realm of border or customs enforcement. The most notable is with the FAA and their private plane intercepts which sometimes happen hundreds or a thousand miles from the border. A private plane will fly a course through or originate from an airport which is within the 100 mile rule, but land far away. Soon after the CBP/FAA/DEA/FBI plane will land behind the private plane and attempt to search. Most pilots give in, but recently there have been several cases tossed out, and the FAA has been admonished to stop enabling these obvious fishing expeditions well inside the US(slippery slope).

Next is the IRS special assets seizure regs(31 USC, 5313 and 18 USC 1956/57) allowing the civil asset seizure of property without due process, and in the method of seizure, there is a statutory obligation to search for illicit or illegal substances(drugs, etc). In the case of the IRS this is also coming under scrutiny for the same type of slippery slope as is happening with the CBP exclusion. Basically, the IRS can seize any asset and then go prove their case later. Or, in many cases the individual just forfeits that asset as it will cost too much to defend the right of ownership. Case law, and finally statutory law was changing in mid-2015, and the courts have taken much more aggressive stands in protecting people from these seizures. Several cases of 'structuring' deposits or withdrawals from banks have given the IRS a black eye in the more conservative fed circuit courts, but it's a crap shoot. First thing is, you better be clean as a whistle from a criminal standpoint to beat the breast of innocence with the IRS.

Now, on to the lower class of scum LEO - namely game wardens, DNR officers, constables, etc. Most of these people are the dregs of LEO community, and are failed patrol, or Corrections Officers, but they still want that power of the badge and gun. My advice, for all it costs you is always, always be polite but firm in NOT GIVING CONSENT. further, nowadays you must actively protest the attempt at search and seizure. This will provide the grounds for me to stand up in front of a judge later and say 'the boat/gun/knife/rod/bow owner said in a clear, unambiguous, non-threatening English voice that they do not consent to this search, and directly told the (fill in LEO) to leave the premises'.

Example: "Sir, I do not consent to your investigative search, and I am advising you that you must now leave the property/boat/cabin/hut/vehicle. Am I free to leave?" If you are NOT free to leave, it is now custodial, and you would again politely advise that you will not be cooperating anymore. "Sir, I understand that you will not allow me to go on my way. I'm offering no resistance, but will not assist in your investigation, and again demand you stop your search."

This is going to make Barney upset, so be polite. They have the badge, and the gun, make them follow the law. if(really when) they don't follow it, you will be happy that you spoke up when confronted. But - don't get uppity. Just speak in a normal tone of voice and whatever you do - never get into a dialogue. Just stand and look at them, and demand your privacy. Most will back down. Those that don't will face the judge eventually.


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