Re: The wrong color is invading the farm!

Posted by LenNH on November 19, 2007 at 08:30:10 from (75.69.99.42):

In Reply to: The wrong color is invading the farm! posted by Steven f/AZ on November 17, 2007 at 09:05:38:

Back in the 30s and 40s where I was growing up in NJ, there was practically nothing but IH equipment. Some of their stuff was growing pretty old-fashioned by the late 30s. Except for the F-12, which had a "modern" engine with pressure lubrication, the rest of their tractors were using WWI technololgy; it was good and well-made, but crude and heavy. BUT.....there was a dealer five miles away, and another about 10 miles away, and they had any part you needed, they knew their equipment, could and would advise you on how to DIY, and so on. In the 30s, many of the roads near us were unpaved. A few years ago, I was visiting my father and suggested we go take a look at the old local IH dealer's place, just to see what their tractors and things looked like. My father's only comment was, "Why, that's FIVE miles!!!" I should add that I had just driven 700 miles to see him, in one day. Long story short--dealers nearby, their stuff sells if it's any good at all. Almost everybody in that part of the world had IH equipment. Deere's nearest dealer was 25 miles away--a "trip" over washboard roads (put another way, two hours of your time just to go and come). As to Minneapolis-Moline, Case, Massey-Harris, no dealers that I was ever aware of, so they just didn't sell anything in our part of the country. No reflection on their quality. Things are now on the other foot. Deere is everywhere. It is true that a lot of their equipment is aimed at the suburbs and at contractors, but in my few dealings with a local JD dealer, I was treated with courtesy and got the impression that they had parts, knew what they were doing, knew their equipment, and so on.
I can't get into an argument about who stole what from whom. It is certainly true that most manufacturers dragged their heels on the 3-point hitch. They didn't want to pay Ferguson his royalties, no doubt. Did Deere steal the idea of a six-cylinder engine from Oliver? What other tractors had six-cylinder engines, even in the thirties? How about the T-40 (tested at Nebraska 1932), several Caterpillars in the 30s, Oliver, of course (Nebraska 1936), the WK-40 (Nebraska 1936), the TD-18 (1936). The in-line six is one of the smoothest engines there is, because of the even firing intervals. You weren't stealing anything to create a nice big six. It was a sensation in 1929 when Chevy put a sweet-running little six in their cars and trucks. Ford used a four until they brought out the V-8 and created another sensation in 1932. The history of invention and stealing-of-invention could go on forever. Did Olds invent the high-compression V-8? Is it an invention, or just a development of what was already known (better gasoline can use a higher compression ratio than was common at the time; higher compression ratios work better in engines with a bearing between each cylinder, etc.)? Did Watt invent the steam engine? Certainly not--Newcomen did, maybe, and he certainly got the idea from other people who either had the idea of using steam or were actively working on some sort of steam engine/pump. Watt did pick up on the work of others, and develop something better.
I can't go into the plusses and minuses of JD's designs--never had the good fortune to use any of their designs after the Poppin' Johnnys were dropped. It seems to me that they combined a lot of things and upped the ante a bit. One of the things that seems apparent with the 3010 and 4010 series and their successors is that they got very good weight distribution by putting the engine back close to the transmission. Slippage in the Nebraska tests of these tractors is very low, which suggests that they used their power efficiently.
I guess my point is that all sorts of good ideas, stolen or borrowed, or just used after the patents run out, go into good products, and it is often the way they are put together that make them desirable. A great example is most modern automatic transmissions, which don't differ very much in basic principle from the Hydramatic which Olds brought out before World War Two. Lots of changes and tweaks to the modern boxes, of course (torque converter instead of fluid-drive, electronic controls instead of the old centrifugal governor, etc.). By the way, the planetary transmissions in our modern cars all go back in principle to the trannies used by Olds, Reo, Ford in the early 1900s, and THAT principle was used by James Watt to transmit power when somebody beat him to the patent of the direct-acting connecting rod-to-crankshaft. Both in England and in France, there were planetary transmissions in the 30s that were controlled by the driver (check out Wilson Preselector Gearbox and Cotal on the net if you'd like to see what they were like). I have no doubt that the engineers who developed the Hydramatic knew about the European transmissions. In my opinion, the development of a fully-automated transmission that "knows" when to shift is a fabulous invention, even if some of the basics weren't exactly new.
I would like to hear from people who have used JD products going back to the 3010/4010 series, especially people who can compare them with other makes. Traction, power, torque, comfort, braking, transmission quality, ease of shifting---all these come to mind. I am sorry to say that
my last serious field work was done on a Super M, which is a nice evolution of a tractor that came out in 1939, so I am kind of in the dark about the more modern stuff. One question is pretty obvious--did IH, Moline, Case, Oliver have tractors in the late 50s that were as "developed" as the John Deere models that replaced Poppin' Johnny? I don't know, and leave it up to you fellows who have experience with all this stuff.

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