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O/T Article on the snipers

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Nancy Howell

04-14-2009 04:13:38




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Found this on msn.com this a.m. Not terribly informative, but still interesting.

Open Sea SnipingHow hard is it to shoot someone in a lifeboat 100 feet away?
By Brian PalmerPosted Monday, April 13, 2009, at 5:25 PM ET

How does a sniper operate on the high seas? Navy snipers killed three Somali pirates who had been holding an American hostage in an 18-foot lifeboat on Sunday. The SEALs fired from a Navy destroyer 100 feet from the pirates. Can a sniper reliably hit a human target on a small boat bobbing on the ocean, or were they taking a chance with the hostage's life?

If the pirates' heads were fully exposed, it would have been an easy shot. A sniper rifle is accurate to within a "minute of angle," provided the shooter can keep his or her target in the crosshairs. That means that a good marksman can reliably hit a 1-inch target at 300 feet and reliably kill someone at 3,000 feet. The bobbing of the lifeboat would have been a factor, but snipers regularly shoot at moving targets from moving vehicles. (Advanced Navy SEAL training includes target practice from helicopters.)

There are two techniques for hitting a moving target—trapping, in which the sniper holds the rifle still and waits for the target to move into the sight, and tracking, in which the sniper moves the rifle to keep the target in the sight. Trapping is the easier method and is preferred among less-experienced marksmen. However, the Navy snipers needed to strike all three pirates simultaneously. Once the countdown began, they could not allow their target to drop from their sight and wait for him to return. (Sniper teams generally count down from five and fire in unison on the T in "two.")

The snipers had other challenges. First, they had to remain stealthy. If the pirates had noticed that gunmen were lying on the destroyer's fantail waiting to pick them off, they never would have exposed themselves to fire. During the day, the SEALs likely used nylon netting to keep themselves in the shadows. Second, they were a little too close for standard sniping tools. Because the barrel of a rifle sits a couple of inches below the sight, it's angled slightly upward. The center of the sight shows the spot the bullet will hit at 300 feet. At a little more than 100 feet, the SEALs would have had to compensate by aiming slightly above their targets. Finally, the SEALs were shooting from a tall destroyer into a tiny lifeboat, and shooting downward is difficult. A sniper rifle rests on a bipod, and the butt rests on the sniper's shoulder. In order to aim below the level of the bipod, the sniper has to prop his chest up. This can create some instability if it's not done properly.

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buickanddeere

04-14-2009 08:26:13




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
Reader's Digest version



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patriot

04-14-2009 08:26:01




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to farmer101IL, 04-14-2009 07:59:04  
Who is the ruthless SOB you speak of? I do not like for you foreigners to speak that way about my President of the USA!!!



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NawlensGator

04-14-2009 06:41:35




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
When the author says:

"The center of the sight shows the spot the bullet will hit at 300 feet. At a little more than 100 feet, the SEALs would have had to compensate by aiming slightly above their targets."

It's obvious he/she doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.



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DJ in Pa.

04-14-2009 07:15:55




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to NawlensGator, 04-14-2009 06:41:35  
A bullet does have a trajectory that intersects with the line of sight on a scope. For absolute PIN POINT accuracy the scope needs adjusted for range or you gotta compensate. If you site a rifle to hit a dime dead center at 100 yards you will not hit that dime dead center at 100 feet.(unless caliber used has that specific trajectory) I would like you to elaborate on your problem with that statement.

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NawlensGator

04-14-2009 10:18:11




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to DJ in Pa., 04-14-2009 07:15:55  

Their scopes are adjustable and are not set at 100 yds (300 ft). They had their crosshairs on the mark. If the scopes were fixed at 100 yds, the author is correct.

For 0.308 zeroed at 100 yds, the bullet rises above the line of sight at about 60 yds and falls below at 100 yds. So to hit something at less than 180 ft, you would have to put the crosshairs above the target (about a half inch at 100 ft).

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bo

04-14-2009 07:39:27




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to DJ in Pa., 04-14-2009 07:15:55  
Problem was that sniper would have to "aim high" at the shorter range. Nope, "aim lower" to compensate.



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DJ in Pa.

04-14-2009 08:09:42




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to bo, 04-14-2009 07:39:27  
Nope. Standard for big game rifle is scope 1.5 inches ABOVE line of bore. Bullet leaves rifle 1.5 inches BELOW line of site. To repeat this only matters if you need PRECISION.



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135 Fan

04-14-2009 10:51:54




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to DJ in Pa., 04-14-2009 08:09:42  
My dad used to be one of only 3 master marksmen in Canada in the 50's. The prone position is the best for the most accurate shot. He always used iron sights and said that a scope can magnify how much off target you are. He shot small bore (22) and made his own stock for his rifle. I still have it but he sold the rifle for it. It is quite big and heavy, especially for only a 22 rifle. They have to be weighted and adjusted for each individual shooter. Breathing is really important as well. I think he said a bullseye is within 10 minutes of a degree or about the size of a dime at 100 yards. A perfect score was 100 10X. The X means within the red bullseye on the target. You could have a 100 score which means you were still hitting the bullseye but not dead center. The 10 means ten shots and the 100 meant 10 points per shot. 100 9X or 100 8X were more common. I asked my dad once if he could shoot someone between the eyes and he said, left or right of center at 100 yards. When my dad signed up for WW II he transfered to the air force because he didn't want to be a sniper. He had been target shooting since he was about 14 years old. At gunnery training, he took a couple of shots and they told him he doesn't need any training, so they sent him to the kitchen to peel potatoes! When he was shooting targets in a plane, they thought something was wrong because he was hitting them more than anyone else. My dad got worried he'd get sent back to the kitchen, so he hit the target a few times and then pointed the guns straight up and fired the rest of his rounds. He was a tailgunner in a Halifax bomber and the only survivor of his crew. He never fired his 4, 1200 rounds per minute each, machine guns in any of his missions. The main purpose of the tailgunner was to warn the pilot of enemy planes and give directions to the pilot to avoid them. The plane got hit by flack and my dad was blown out where the tail wheel comes up. He broke his back from a piece of the turret ring being lodged in it. He thinks the bombs were still on board. Those snipers knew what they were doing and only a 100 feet away it probably wasn't too hard for them to hit their targets. Dave

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MN JOE

04-14-2009 05:50:12




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
Nancy,,, are you still married ?????



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Ahh!

04-14-2009 07:54:16




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to MN JOE, 04-14-2009 05:50:12  
Why you looking?



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MN JOE

04-14-2009 10:31:10




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Ahh!, 04-14-2009 07:54:16  
Looking for what ????? ????? ?????



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LEH

04-14-2009 05:27:01




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
How it was done should be kept secret. No need to educate the fools. Well Done is all I can say !



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dhermesc

04-14-2009 06:50:52




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to LEH, 04-14-2009 05:27:01  
Not exactly a secret. Its like someone telling me how to lose weight and make my body similar to that of a model. Knowing how to do it is one thing - making it happen is another.



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NEsota

04-14-2009 05:18:11




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
Snipers and their methods are foreign to me. On a national news cast, GPS equipment was mentioned as aiding in the accuracy of team. My speculation was that the movement of the platform and the target were computed and this aided in the computation of the timing of firing. Maybe the Seals did not pull the triggers; the three weapons could have been done simultaneously-electronically, to correspond with the optimum point in the movement cycle

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Coloken

04-14-2009 06:57:49




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to NEsota, 04-14-2009 05:18:11  
Nesota...computers not necesary. Trained marksmen are very good. Any rifleman that target shoots can, with the right rifle, hold his, or her, shots on a target the size of you hand at 300 yard (900 feet). Quite a few of the hunters here would have no problem making a neck shot on a running deer at over 100 yards (300 feet).



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JML755

04-14-2009 04:47:28




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Nancy Howell, 04-14-2009 04:13:38  
Interesting article, but I think this might have been a good time for our military to say "no comment" on how this mission was carried out. The pirates will surely be reading this and other articles on the net and update their tactics. A short "gee, we don't know how they died, they must have fell out of the lifeboat" would have sufficed. LOL. Plus, bringing no bodies back (wink, wink) would help sell the story.

I see this AM that more boats have been hijacked, bringing the total to 16 ships and 235 crew members. I hope that other countries follow the US lead and refuse to negotiate with these terrorists. A hard line will be the only way to make piracy unprofitable. A few ships may be sunk and a few lives lost, but paying ransom is not acceptable.
Also, seizing a ship carrying FREE food and supplies to Somolia should be cause for us to tell Somolia " Sorry, not worth the risk, can't send any more aid."

All in all, this incident shows that the US is STILL the # 1 country in the world. We need to start using that position to our advantage, get tough with countries that don't co-operate regarding trade, etc and start charging the world for our services as the World's policeman.

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Ted Regentin

04-14-2009 06:18:33




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to JML755, 04-14-2009 04:47:28  
Sir, your reply to Nancy Howell's posting leaves me with a few questions and observations. Who appointed US the worlds policeman? Are you aware that United States policy in part caused some of the lawlessness in Somalia? Who told us to engage in forced governmental changes? Did you know that as of right now, United States financial liabilities, such as pensions, mediscare, social security, bank bail outs, etc., now exceed the gross domestic production of the rest of the world??? Perhaps we should worry about our own country before trying to be the worlds policeman. Just my two cents worth, (and that is probably all it is worth).

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JackE

04-14-2009 07:49:58




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Ted Regentin, 04-14-2009 06:18:33  
What US "Policy" caused the "Lawlessness" in that craphole known as Somalia? I remember well, the US sent over troops to help get food to the starving populace. What we got for thanks, was to have our dead dragged through the streets by these same, starving savages. What are you talking about, "Worlds policemen"? Our Navy was over there trying to protect international shipping, and ending up rescuing one of our own citizens. Who's ship, by the way, was carrying food for another god forsaken crap hole country. Two cents worth, you say, your comment isn't even worth that.
Jack

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ted regentin

04-14-2009 20:20:29




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to JackE, 04-14-2009 07:49:58  
You ask, "what US policy caused the lawlessness in the craphole known as Somalia'? If you would take a little time and do a little research, and not just follow the talking heads you might actually learn what really happened to Somalia. Years ago, the US embarked on a program of government destabilization, because the government of Somalia did not kowtow to the US. The end result of the meddling of the US is that now there is no effective central government and the warlords and clans rule. Because of this, now piracy flourishes. My reference to the US being the world's policeman refers to the US engaging in wars of aggression in Iraq and Afganistan.

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JackE

04-15-2009 06:36:36




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to ted regentin, 04-14-2009 20:20:29  
When and Why would the US cause destabilization in Somalia? What interest would the US have there? What, we just go around destabilizing African countries? I remember, Bush Sr, sending our troops over there to HELP the somalie people get food. The place was a rudderless craphole run by various armed gangs. The government had already collapsed. It was on the news almost nightly, showing the starving people. The place has NOTHING of any interest to us. Our troops were sent there to help. You talk of "Wars of aggression" In Iraq and Afganistan. Are you serious, you don't know why we went to Afganistan? You think we just went there for kicks? As for Iraq, Saddam was a thorn in our side since the 1st gulf war. Breaking the agreement he signed when he got his a$$ kicked. Targeting and shooting at our jets in the NO-FLY zone. Ignoring 17 UN resolutions. I guess to you, that does'nt mean anything. I can tell by the tone of your post, you're one of those blame America first kind of guys. Does'nt make me mad, just sad to know, there are many more that think just like you. Well, you are probably going to get your wish, America's going down, ENJOY.

Jack

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ted regentin

04-16-2009 07:04:39




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to JackE, 04-15-2009 06:36:36  
Jack, you wrote; "When and Why would the US cause destabilization in Somalia? What interest would the US have there? What, we just go around destabilizing African countries?" Yes the US government has done just that. You have to do a bit of study to learn all of this. I won't do it for you. All of the information is out there. With the search engines it is rather simple to do. As for you questions as to why the US went into Afganistan and Iraq, good questions, considering the fact that Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. If one is to believe the news reports, most of the highjackers came from Saudia Arabia. Sadaam was just another two bit dictator who was put into power by the CIA by the way. (You can do your own research on that subject also.) For your information, I truly mourn what is happening to my country. I have a small homestead, raise a few animals, garden, go to church on Sunday, own a business, have seven kids, and I truly feel for them with what is happening right now. AS for the reasons as to why all of this is happening, it would simply take too much time to go into it right now.
Ted

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JackE

04-16-2009 09:36:39




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to ted regentin, 04-16-2009 07:04:39  
Well, I did some research.(Right from the MSN home page) It was'nt hard to find. Somalia was used as a satilite for the USSR. They were friends of the Cubans and N.Korea. We supported Ethiopia. We, the US, did NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, that led to the destabilazation and ruinination of the craphole known as Somalia. They did it to themselves, with a bit of help, from their good friends, the Soviet Union. We went in to help after the catistrophic collapse with the UN, as I stated before. Also even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, as I said in my previous post, 17 UN resoluions, Continued agressive actions after the 1st gulf war, led to the hammering of Iraq. You will not get an arguement from me about Saudia Arabia. It burns me to see the groveling our government does to the Saudies. We should drill and recover more of our own oil and natural gas and cut our dependence on them waaaay back. It's not going to happen, not with this crew running things, but it should. Nice talking with you, Take it easy.

Jack

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rustyj14

04-14-2009 07:38:56




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to Ted Regentin, 04-14-2009 06:18:33  
Yep, just about all it is worth----- -



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Nancy Howell

04-14-2009 06:13:21




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 Re: O/T Article on the snipers in reply to JML755, 04-14-2009 04:47:28  
With the 3 that were taken last night, the total since Jan. 01, is now 70 with over 230 hostages.



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