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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T Chain saw sharpening

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GeneMO

03-31-2008 13:13:35




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My dad always sharpened the chains, so I never really learned how. Now he's gone. He clamped the bar in the vice and sharpened them while still on the bar, and did it free handed, with no guides or anything.

anyone got any advice, instuctions,, or web sites that would walk a beginner through?

Thanks, Gene




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Mashbox

04-01-2008 03:53:13




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
If you want to sharpen the chain by hand, Oregon makes an alignment tool that clips to the top of the file. Get the correct size file for your chain, clip the alignment tool on the top, and use it as a reference to keep the angle correct. Three strokes per tooth, sharpening one side and then the other. Once the chain is sharpened, adjust the tension so there is no slop in th echain, and grease the tip (sprocket) of the bar. I usually do not flip the bar every time I sharpen, but about every third time. I also use a clamp-on guide after hand sharpening 4-5 times to keep everything at the right angle.

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cannonball

04-01-2008 03:00:14




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
look at the links to be sharpened, they have a line across them..that is proper angle that the chain should be sharpened... now to do it right takes a lot of experience..


MAY GOD BLESS THE USA



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buickanddeere

03-31-2008 20:38:20




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
As pp has stated. The power sharpener. Take the chain off the bar, sharpen, replace on bar and in less than 10 minutes. Factory fresh performance that lasts. Mighty few hand sharpeners can approach the cutting speed, cutting ease and lasting edge of a perfectly sharpened chain.
Haven't touched a hand file in 20+ years except to toss it aside while picking one of the spare sharpened chains from the tool box.

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Bruce Hopf

03-31-2008 20:03:20




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Gene.
I highly recomend that you get yourself a good Bench Filing Tool, or one that fits on your guide bar. You want to make shure you give every tooth the same amount of strokes, that way every tooth is the same, and straight. I have tried free hand, and when you push the file you round the cutter. I have used one of these for almost 30 years. I use a 7/32 file I give each tooth 5 to 7 strokes, until I start to get a wired edge, at a 30 degree angle. Periododicaly, you want to cut down your drages. To do this , turn your tool to a 90 degree, using just a flat file in the tool. set the file on the top edge of your cutter. Turn your up and down adgustment, up and down, and have the file just touch the cutter. Turn it back 2 increments, and set it down on the top of your drag, and file every drag. You will be good to go. As a Licenced Chainsaw Technician of 20 some years, I have seen too many bars ruined, and replaced, because of free hand sharpening. One side of the bar has been worn more that other. I have a chain saw here that is mine. My Great Uncle bought it 40 years ago, has cut alot of wood, with the original roler nosed bar that came with the saw. The roler nose was replaced on the bar. My Father bought it from him 34 years ago, and now I have it. I have another saw hear that My Great Uncle had, and he bought it in 1973 it too with a rolernosed bar, and I replaced the nose 5 years ago. The saw I got from my Great Uncle I used it to Custom Cut fire wood for alot of farmers who didn't own a chainsaw, or didn't have the time to do it for 10 years. I also cut wood to heat my home with now, with these saws. Hope this helps. If you need any more help, or advice. You can e-mail me any time.
Answer to another question asked about a Sthil Chain saw. Yes you can turn the bar over on this saw. Ther is two holes on each side of the bar. One hole goes right through for adjustment. and one hole an each side for the oil to flow through to the chain. Most important. clean out the insedes of the rails ofr the oil to properly get into the chain, and bar. Also file the burrs of or the bar as well. This prolongs the life of your chain, as well as your bar. Turn bar over every time you sharpen your chain.
When you shut off your saw, I always always pul the starter rope out about 6 to 8 inches, sso that there isn't too mush recoil on the starter rope when you shut off your saw. This prolomgs the life or your starter assembly. If you think that there is no recoil on your starter, try this ands you will find out. Yuo will be quit supprised.
Bruce.

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sparepartsTN

03-31-2008 18:39:57




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Gene
You have gotten some good advise from some knowledgeable people. I would add that if you sharpen free hand with a round file you should pay attention to how far the file fits under the top of the tooth. When I want a fast cut in soft wood, I would file until the tip of the tooth was almost to the top of the file, = more aggressive cut. When I cut hardwood or in freezing temps, I will not let the file go as far under the tooth = less agressive cut, less likely to grab the wood. You can buy a simple guage from any chain saw dealer that will show the proper height of the rakers (the little bumps between the teeth, they set the depth of cut). It is easy to sharpen chains, saves trips to dealer, saves $, just pay attention and don"t slice your finger on a freshly sharpened tooth. When you get used to doing it and comfortable with the saw, you can modify things like raker height, tooth angles ect., you can really make them slice through wood.
Warren

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Mathias NY

03-31-2008 18:24:42




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
The link below shows some of the options available. I'm partial to Stihl, but Lowes or Home Depot will have similar products. While agree that any self-respecting logger wouldn't dream of using a grinder to sharpen their chains, many of us aren't skilled enough to free-hand the sharpening.

The bar-mounted sharpening tool is what I learned to sharpen with. It forces you to hold the file at the correct angle and depth. Harbor Freight sells one for under $20 and isn't worth the money. A decent one will probably run $40.

The file guides are another sharpening tool. They require a little more skill, but still help control the depth of the cut and have an angle reference stamped into them. Probably $10 with the file.

If you are only an occasional user, buy a spare chain and have it sharpened by a dealer. They will use a grinder and you may only get 50% of the life out of the chain. If that means you get 3 years out of a chain instead of 6, who cares?

Good luck.

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treeboy of indiana

03-31-2008 17:25:00




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
gene, get the right size file, put a good handle on it, now treat is better than your pocket knife.. files do NOT go in the tool box w/ wrenches vibratuing around & soon to be dull..
start filing your chain before its dull, & use the entire lenght of the file, NOT the middle 2 inches..you should position yourself sothat you are very confrontable in front of your vise so that each stroke is identical, the more you look like a machine while filing, most likely your saw will cut fine, the rakers need to be filed w/ one or two strokes when they become very shinnie on the tip (your saw is sharp but does not want to cut well) buy a couple of chains so if ya mess up, ya put on a sharp one PLUS chaps & hardhat

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RobMD

03-31-2008 17:06:43




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Basically, when you're sawing, you never let that chain get any duller than when you know it's dull already. By not allowing it to get any duller, you eliminate the chances of rounding the crest of each cutting edge (the flat dog where the cutting edge is found). By sharpening when saw performance shows signs of faltering, you'll save time by making two or three swipes with the file per edge compared to 6 or 7 per edge when you've rounded over the whole edge.

As mentioned, you'll never see a good logger using one of those sharpener contraptions. It is not hard to do, just be patient, and go with the angle of that edge (provided that you did NOT let it go too far). Make sure you use the right file for your chain - stihl has a guide specifically for this

There is such a thing as having a chain too sharp. I know everytime i get that chain too sharp, the saw won't pull it through the wood.

If you're making 1/4-3/8 inch chips, you're making double time. If you're only putting out salt and pepper, you got to get that chain sharpened fast.

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RayP(MI)

03-31-2008 15:38:33




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
I too do it freehand. As you dad did, I clamp the bar in the bench vice. (actually I have an old bar I can lay the chain on,) and I use a Dremmel tool with a grinder that is the same size as a file would be for that chain. Look at the way the chain is currently ground, and with file (or Dremmel) try to lay the file against the chain to provide the same angle(s). Once you're confident on the angle, go ahead and sharpen. You need to file until there is a sharp edge appearing on the top of the tooth. After a couple sharpenings, you may need to take the tooth off a little on the tooth that leads the cutting edge, as that controls the depth of the cut. I never had good luck with a file guide, and had one of the best (most complex) and files went dull on me in a couple sharpenings. Carefully used the Dremmel lasts quite a while, and produces results - fast!

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JayinNY

03-31-2008 15:23:13




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Gene, The best way to sharpen your chain is with a electric chain grinder. They are so cheap now, that it dosent pay to try to file them by hand. Check out Baileys or Northern Tool. Also its a rare person who can ever grind a chain as accuratly as a grinder. Most people take more off one side then the other, but never think they do until it gets so bad the saw only cuts to one side. J



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Marlowe

03-31-2008 16:30:02




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to JayinNY, 03-31-2008 15:23:13  
a grinder will never sharpen a chain like hand sharping. you will never see a real logger use a grinder



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Kemper

03-31-2008 18:27:59




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to Marlowe, 03-31-2008 16:30:02  
Yea right, a real logger will touch up a chain in the woods but they also put them on a grinder to keep the chain angles true,i can sharpen my chains on the grinder and they stay sharp alot longer than hand fileing,because every tooth has the exact same angle.



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jayinny

03-31-2008 17:32:03




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to Marlowe, 03-31-2008 16:30:02  
Marlowe, Sorry I dident know you were a REAL LOGGER!



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RayP(MI)

03-31-2008 15:18:39




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
I too do it freehand. As you dad did, I clamp the bar in the bench vice. (actually I have an old bar I can lay the chain on,) and I use a Dremmel tool with a grinder that is the same size as a file would be for that chain. Look at the way the chain is currently ground, and with file (or Dremmel) try to lay the file against the chain to provide the same angle(s). Once you're confident on the angle, go ahead and sharpen. You need to file until there is a sharp edge appearing on the top of the tooth. After a couple sharpenings, you may need to take the tooth off a little on the tooth that leads the cutting edge, as that controls the depth of the cut. I never had good luck with a file guide, and had one of the best (most complex) and files went dull on me in a couple sharpenings. Carefully used the Dremmel lasts quite a while, and produces results - fast!

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Gary in da UP

03-31-2008 14:37:29




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Gene , I use a Stihl 032 saw with 16" bar, I use only Oregon chain and the method I use is to clamp the bar in a vise, and follow the guide mark that Oregon stamps into the top of the tooth I will even give a new chain a lick or two as machine sharpening can be improved upon. I only cut red oak and hard maple and like to see big chips , not saw dust . when you have your teeth proerly sharpned your saw won't need any downpressure at all , just the angle of the properly sharpened teeth will pull itself into the logand you will feel the difference in the performance. Ishapen my chain every tankfull, I take a break and let it cool down and then adjust the chain tension, and then file . Any time you feel that your saw is not pulling itself into the work you may as well stop and sharpen . Ifile the rakers maybe every 5 6 times that I sharpen teeththen they only need a couple of licks . don't get carried away fileing rakers cuz you may run out of power and your saw will get 'grabby'. Turn over your bar with every new chain and your sprocket too if you can on your particular saw It's real easy to do , once you do it a few times. If your saw wants to bind and cut a curve then your teeth are sharper on one side than the other, then you may want to take your chain to some one with a machine the get them evened out tho if you study the teeth you'll see what you need to do . good luck!gh PS, I use chisel chain.

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in-too-deep

03-31-2008 14:24:12




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Take your bar off and flip it upside down every time you sharpen the chain. You want both sides of the bar to wear evenly.



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Dan-IA

03-31-2008 18:05:29




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to in-too-deep, 03-31-2008 14:24:12  
Can you do that with a stihl? I think the bar oiler is only on one side of the bar so it has to be put back with the letters right-side-up everytime.

And--we use a grinder sharpener, kinda looks like a miter box.



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HossinMe

03-31-2008 13:50:58




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Gene,first off make sure youve got right size file.Clamp bar in a vise.For hardwood follow angle of tooth and hold file straight across and push it through.This willonly take 2-3 swipes.For softwood angle tip of file down a little.We cut a lot of big pine up here and use big hp saws and we can put really steep angles on em..Every couple filings you will have to get a small flat file and cut the rakers down a little so you con get more bite. Let us know, Hoss

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Gerald J.

03-31-2008 13:40:39




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
The way I've done it was:

With the saw supported (vise is nice, but not neceessary), I take the round file in hand. I fit it into the round notch on the front of the tooth so it rests against the front of the tooth all the way across. Hold at that angle. Three strokes. Do all the teeth at that angle which is half the teeth on the chain, then from the other side do those with the opposite angle. What you want to sharpen is the underside of the flat cutting tooth. In the process you will deepen the round notch.

Gerald J.

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Billy NY

03-31-2008 13:40:18




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
From one novice to another:

Figure out what type of chain and cutters are on it, and match the file to it. My Stihl MS 390 has a 3/8" pitch chain and I'm not sure what cutter from memory, I've been using a 15/64 stihl file in their bench mount guide.

My chain has the angle line stamped in it, you could parallel this with a regular hand held guide, but I think it's better with the clamp on the bar guide like the stihl bench mount I use. For some reason I stayed with the OEM accessories, there are all kinds of others out there.


For an accurate sharpen without taking the chain to a place that has the machine, I set the guides of the clamp on bench mount guide, set the guide along the chain, just even with the top of chain,but below the cutter. I use a 30 deg angle setting, and depending on how dull or what I may have hit (usually old barb wire in hedge row trees) with the chain, you try to find the shortest cutter and or figure how many passes with the file ( remember it only cuts in one direction ) it will take and do that many for every cutter. I use the same number of passes on each cutter, usually the cutters stay in decent shape, if you let them get hammered it is a no win situation, takes longer to true em up, more metal has to come off. I get away with about 4 passes if it just dulls up from hard dry elm, hit dirt/rock or similar, it can bugger em up more, sometimes the barbed wire is not that bad, but once it's dull, best to take a breather, put on a fresh chain or sharpen the one that is on there. Cutting with a dull chain is not good.

Another thing is to see how far the raker protrudes up past the cutter, (the thing on the chain that sticks up but is not a cutter). In the instructions I have read it states to file those down if they protrude above the cutter, but you have to be careful, if you take those down too far the chain will cut more agressively, as well as increased kick back. On my saw, I have not worn a chain out yet, nor have those rakers measured to protrude yet, again, there are a lots of variables in chain types etc. You should read up at the Oregon site and others, lot of information to learn from, even for the novice. Do check the chain and maintain proper tension, and also INSPECT the chain for any defects that could cause it to break and fly off, look at the rivets etc.

I can't claim to be an expert, but for a quick on the bench or in the field sharpen, you can use one of these clmap on file guides with a stump vise, I also use a clamp with rubber ends to clamp my saw to a table in the garage, then it's steady, takes me about 15 mintues for a 20" bar and I get an accurate sharpen, that cuts very efficiently. I don't need anything else, when the chain is wore out, I'll get a new one with a sprocket if worn, should keep those matched. Also good to check the bar for wear and make sure the rails wear straight, (even surface to each side of the chain groove) When I sharpen mine

This is a popular subject, you're going to get a whole bunch of advice, just a few cents worth from an amateur here and I'm sure to be corrected :)

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Chuck - WI

03-31-2008 13:30:02




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 Re: O/T Chain saw sharpening in reply to GeneMO, 03-31-2008 13:13:35  
Try Oregon Chain site

Link

or search Foresty Forum -- Chainsaws Link



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