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How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicle

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Bruce Hopf

03-27-2008 07:22:14

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Go to your google box, and type in Tornado Fuel Saver. Then click on Cyclone. You will get an Idea how this outfit works. Then google K&N air filters. These products really do work, and saves money. A friend of mine bourht a 1999 Chevy Blazer, with four wheel drive. He did research on his vehicle, and with his set up, he found out that his vehicle would use 17 to 18 liters of gas, per 100 kilometers. He installed the Tornado after 3 weeks, and dropped his consomption down to 13 to 14 L per 100 KM. a week later, he installed a K&N airfilter, and his gas consumption dropped down to 10 to 11 L per 100 KM I have a 1196 GMC Searra 1500 series Pickup Truck, with 4 wheel drive, low geared reared, and a 350 Vortex engine. I installed both at once last spring, and what a difference it made with my truck. My gas millage increesed per gallon. Most of the winter I drove in four wheel drive, and was averaging 17 to 19 miles per gallon. I real noticed a huge difference when I pull my 20 foot float trailer I use for hauling tractors, to and from my shop. I am quit pleased with this prouducts, I thought I would share this with you. I also have a 1998 Chevy Blazer, 4 wheel drive. I immediatly insalled both of these products in it the day I purchased it. I bought the Tornados, at my local GM dealership, and the K&N Filters at TSC. Like I said I am Very Happy with these products, and the Savings in gas is worth every penny I paid for these products. Good luck.
Bruce

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dave guest

03-27-2008 19:47:40

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

One from seventies was increase timing advance. Power time, we called it. Also if you were real serious, recurve distributor vacuum and mechanical advance. Disconnect secondaries on 4 barrel carbs. Tried less restrictive exhaust and noticed idle speed would usually drop, so we concluded that maybe that burned more gas. Rumor has it that semis eliminated front brakes because of drag. May only have been rumor. Old man named Orville had valve on manifold he opened on long trips. Said it worked and saved lotta gas but valves looked like corkscrews after a while.

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Steven f/AZ

03-27-2008 20:00:21

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to dave guest, 03-27-2008 19:47:40

dave guest said: (quoted from post at 19:47:40 03/27/08) Rumor has it that semis eliminated front brakes because of drag. May only have been rumor.

Disc brakes constantly drag, the pads never completely release from the rotors... Drum brakes are more efficient, as they have springs to pull the shoes away from the drum.

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 07:32:14

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-27-2008 20:00:21

Back when I used to set drum brakes, the proper setting was to have the shoe dragging slightly on the drum. If you didn't you had excessive pedal. And it seemed that the system was never symmetrical as there would always be one side of the drum that drug even if you did like the book said and tightened them up tight first then backed off to a slight drag.

I can spin my disc brake wheel by hand (with the tire and all installed....like it rolls). Not much hp loss there. Also I can take my foot off the gas and my disc brake trucks seem to roll forever. Couldn't do that with drums (tranny in N).

Mark

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1936

03-27-2008 14:32:23

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Plain and simple slow down for good gas mileage. Can run 36 pounds of tire pressure and coast to red lights. You will have to stop for the lead foot that passed you at the next red light. All the snake oil salesmen goodies enables them to buy gas. Have a K 5 with 350 and only way I can get good mileage is to leave it in the drive way. Does has 3.0 rear ends and will run the the big dogs at 10 mpg. When I buy the no name gas I lose 2 to 3 miles per gallon. This well head gas and plugs injectors. You get what you pay for.

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Bob

03-27-2008 13:55:39

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BruceH, in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

There used to be all sorts of gizmos that swirled and did this and that to the fuel MIXTURE after the carburetor, SUPPOSEDLY giving better mileage. Nowdays, the gasoline is injected just before the intake valve (actually sprayed AT the intake valve by each fuel injector).

What the hell good do you suppose it does to swirl the AIR ahead of the throttle plate(s), LONG before the fuel is even injected, does to improve gas mileage?

HOW do you figure "spinning" the AIR before the throttle plates has ANYTHING to do with how the air/fuel mixture will mix AFTER the throttle plates, AT the intake valve area?

While we'e at it, can I interst you in some "ocean front property" in Arizona???

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 07:34:19

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Re: BruceH, in reply to Bob, 03-27-2008 13:55:39

I thought that stuff was in the swamps of S. Florida. Ha!

Mark

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02XLT4X4

03-27-2008 14:48:44

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Re: BruceH, in reply to Bob, 03-27-2008 13:55:39

Bob said: (quoted from post at 13:55:39 03/27/08) There used to be all sorts of gizmos that swirled and did this and that to the fuel MIXTURE after the carburetor, SUPPOSEDLY giving better mileage. Nowdays, the gasoline is injected just before the intake valve (actually sprayed AT the intake valve by each fuel injector).

What the hell good do you suppose it does to swirl the AIR ahead of the throttle plate(s), LONG before the fuel is even injected, does to improve gas mileage?

HOW do you figure "spinning" the AIR before the throttle plates has ANYTHING to do with how the air/fuel mixture will mix AFTER the throttle plates, AT the intake valve area?

While we'e at it, can I interst you in some "ocean front property" in Arizona???

Now they are even coming out with direct injected cars too, where the fuel is spayed directly into the combustion chamber like a halfway modern diesel.

I did put true duals on my pickup and it downshifts less on hills (I drive the same route on the highway quite often) and feels a tad snappier but I didn't see much difference on milage. My old muffler resembled a 20 gallon drum and couldn't have done much for moving the exhaust down the line.

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03-27-2008 12:24:33

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Take 50+ year old technology for best fuel economy- Hemisperical (or close to it) combustion chamber, dual spark plugs and dual spark source like 2 magnetoes, maybe direct fuel injection or leanable light throttle carberator. You can find examples in Pratt&Whitney 14 cylinder radials. BMW /5, /6 motorcycle engines had some dual plug upgrades when worried about unleaded gas here- claimed road mileage increased 5-10% under 90mph. Ford 140 inch 4 with dual ignition advertised about same mileage gain still with carb. Central spark plug, high energy ignition and port type fuel injection nowadays getting about the best compomise of fuel economy and performance. Cadillac has/had a 8stroke ignition cycle for light load running to get fuel economy and run cool- basicly fuel injector squirted only 1/2 the time. Lots of ways to get fuel economy known- but the marketable balance of power and performance may vary between Citroen 2CV and Ford Taurus when the 75 mile speed zones for 100 miles are considered. RN

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 07:40:10

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to RN, 03-27-2008 12:24:33

I have one of those Chrysler Corporation registered Trade Mark HEMI critters. It does it's thing very nicely with the 4 cylinder when you don't need 8 system.

I have had it about 6 months now and I have observed that if I putter around at 50-60 I can get 17.1 (best number yet) around here which is country driving trips of 3 to 20 miles. If I kick it up to 70 I guess it requires all 8 to buck the head wind cause the mileage drops off to about 14.

I know the numbers because in the overhead is a little hootus that displays different pieces of info and one of those is MPG.

Mark

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856

03-27-2008 11:39:37

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

I have dynoed several chevy engines from 355 to 434 cubic inch. You spend the whole session running with NO air cleaner,Fine tuning, rejetting, any thing you can do to get every ounce of power out of your engine. When that is acomplished then you put the paper air filter on and do one more pull and very seldom does the rating change.THE ONLY THING A K&N FILTER IS GOOD FOR IS THAT IT'S WASHABLE. Otherwise they are waste of money if you think that your going to gain HP and fuel econemy.

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buickanddeere

03-27-2008 11:36:54

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snake oil and fun with a can of gas in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Bruce please get it through your head. These snake oil products only improve mileage because your wallet is lighter and easier to haul around. The only person to cheat the laws of physics and get a way with it is Captain James T. Kirk on Star Trek. As for the fun, we pulled the old classic fuel economy trick around here. Somebody was all believing of these wonder gadgets. So we would take turns adding a gallon, then after more gadgets were added. Then 2 gallons of fuel to his vehicles tank every week. Then after a couple of weeks of adding three gallons. We quit topping up the fuel tank. For a few bucks each we had weeks on none stop comedy. The frantic looks and activities around the vehicle while trying to "repair it" and regain the magic mileage. They could not have been equaled by any actor on stage or in a movie.

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03-27-2008 11:20:40

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Aaron Ford, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

thurlow said: (quoted from post at 09:10:02 03/27/08) When sub-compact cars first came out, one of my neighbors bought one and his mileage kept going up and up..... .as the engine got "broken in". Eventually, it got so good, he'd have to periodically siphon out some gasoline.....

That there is just plumb funny ..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Ron in Nebr

03-27-2008 11:15:48

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

If you feel these products helped you, then that"s great, and telling others about your results is ok too.

BUT- Consumer Reports Magazine, a magazine put out by a non-profit group that tests all kinds of products and accepts no advertising money from anyone, has done very scientific tests on virtually all of the gas-saving gizmos out there, including the "Tornado" type air-swirler things and the "magnets on the gas line" deals. Their unbiased findings? None of these things help AT ALL, at least on any modern computer controlled fuel-injected vehicle.

The K&N filters, when clean, DO flow more air than a stock style paper filter. They do this because they don"t filter as good- they don"t trap the smaller particles! That"s probably ok if you only drive on clean paved streets with no dust or dirt.

On our dirt-track stock car engines, we went back to paper filters. After a race with a K&N, you could run your finger around the top of the carb venturies and there"d be a film of fine dust there. The paper filters eliminated this. A major race engine builder says he can immediately tell if a customer has run a K&N type filter when they bring their engines in for rebuilds- there will be MUCH more wear on the cylinder walls due to all the grit that gets by the filter. He strongly advises using only paper filters. However, the biggest reason in his mind is, during a 50 lap race on an average dirt track, the oil on the K&N filter attracts so much extra dirt(bigger particles) that by the end of the race the engine will be down by as much as 50 horsepower(we"re talking about an 800hp engine) compared to a dry paper filter due to the filter being clogged with dirt! He"s verified this on chassis dynos too.

How does this relate to the original topic of gas milage on your street vehicle? Simply that although when clean the K&N might flow more air than paper, it"ll get dirty LOTS faster and kill your mileage unless you stay on top of maintenance and clean that filter often. If ya do that, you"ll get better milage, at least until you cylinder walls and rings get worn enough to where the engine just can"t run as good. The best thing K&N has going for it is a super marketing program!

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IH2444

03-27-2008 10:52:31

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Hey now I have magnets on my fuel line and have to siphon out a few gallons of gas daily to keep from rupturing my fuel tank.

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onefarmer

03-27-2008 10:57:03

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to IH2444, 03-27-2008 10:52:31

Maybe it's that water injection!!

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onefarmer

03-27-2008 10:50:31

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draining the tank over here!! in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Well lets see;

improvements
15% tornado
10% k&n
6% tire inflation
5% magnet on fuel line
15% better exhaust
20% best driving behavior
3% higher grade gas

mmmmm mmm Pretty soon I will need to drain the tank of all the savings.

Seriously if it works for you great. I know car makers sometimes have to meet emissions at the expense of fuel efficiency and some items will/may reverse some of that. I don't see how a Tornado would do anything though.

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Keith-OR

03-27-2008 10:49:59

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Bruce Hopf said: (quoted from post at 07:22:14 03/27/08) Go to your google box, and type in Tornado Fuel Saver. Then click on Cyclone. You will get an Idea how this outfit works. Then google K&N air filters. These products really do work, and saves money. A friend of mine bourht a 1999 Chevy Blazer, with four wheel drive. He did research on his vehicle, and with his set up, he found out that his vehicle would use 17 to 18 liters of gas, per 100 kilometers. He installed the Tornado after 3 weeks, and dropped his consomption down to 13 to 14 L per 100 KM. a week later, he installed a K&N airfilter, and his gas consumption dropped down to 10 to 11 L per 100 KM
I have a 1196 GMC Searra 1500 series Pickup Truck, with 4 wheel drive, low geared reared, and a 350 Vortex engine. I installed both at once last spring, and what a difference it made with my truck. My gas millage increesed per gallon. Most of the winter I drove in four wheel drive, and was averaging 17 to 19 miles per gallon. I real noticed a huge difference when I pull my 20 foot float trailer I use for hauling tractors, to and from my shop. I am quit pleased with this prouducts, I thought I would share this with you. I also have a 1998 Chevy Blazer, 4 wheel drive. I immediatly insalled both of these products in it the day I purchased it. I bought the Tornados, at my local GM dealership, and the K&N Filters at TSC. Like I said I am Very Happy with these products, and the Savings in gas is worth every penny I paid for these products.
Good luck.

Bruce

I have no intentions on trying to put you down nor burst your bubble,BUT
there has been some extensive research done on both products you have so adimently endorsed. Under controlled research both items were found not to live up to all manufactures claims. Second K&N filters were at least some what inferior to most standard air filters. To support ones arguement on a particular hyphosis one always supplies only evidence to support their side and omitt any that would oppose their arguement.

I will suggest the same to you as you have to others,,,DO a google search for Scientific research on both products. Any and all great research needs to be conducted with most all variables figured in to the equation and controlled if at all possible. Also to be a unbiased research (suger pills) vehicles with and without items needing testing, and without drivers knowing which vehicle they have with test equipment installed. Also drivers and automobles need to be selected at random. Then one needs a controlled group and uncontrolled group...Therefore as I see it your individual study , test or whatever, is really a biased opinion.. on your part...

I remember way back when in college I had to write a paper opposing Ashley Monitgues "Women are Superior To Men". All Ashley did was give only evidence to support her argement...Case and point.

No disrespect intended

Keith & Shawn(Special Olympic Gold Champion)

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RodInNS

03-27-2008 10:42:14

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Believe what you like but I don't see how either of those toys will do any good. As mentioned below already, if you saw an increase from using a K&N filter, then the old filter was already plugged... but I don't see how you would even see an increase because of a plugged filter on a modern engine.
Most all gasoline engines today use a MAF sensor or Mass AirFlow, so it measures the total volume of air going into the engine and then computes the injector firing time based on that data. If you have a plugged filter or some other gadget stuck into the intake system, the MAF or MAP sensor will account for it... and then fire the appropriate amount of fuel.
From what I saw on the cyclone website regarding mileage claims.... they basically only tested an old carburated engine or at best a throttle body injected engine with a more primitive control system, so mabey there was some gain there... but I doubt you would see any gain on a tune port/multi port injected engine.

Rod

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dej(jed)

03-27-2008 10:09:53

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Hey Bruce, you are dealing with a bunch of morons here, so I wouldn't get to upset about the comments. The scary part is that all these "know it alls" voted in the current leaders that created the current fuel mess.

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Bryan in Iowa

03-27-2008 10:09:07

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Gadgets ,,gotta love em . I'd be willing to put your truck on my 4 gas analizer and we can foind out just how well it REALLY works .
My favorite was the heating the fuel trick ..Fuel lines wrapped around exhaust pipes etc,,,real time bombs

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dej(jed)

03-27-2008 10:07:23

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Hey Bruce, you are dealing with a bunch of morons here, so I wouldn't get to upset about the comments.

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Circus

03-27-2008 09:27:48

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the consensus is your a liar in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

the consensus is your a liar.

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Bruce Hopf

03-27-2008 09:38:53

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Re: the consensus is your a liar in reply to Circus, 03-27-2008 09:27:48

Circus. It is very very oddvious that you are one of those Bozos, that are too bloddy lazy to google for information for your self, but rather sit back and call sombody a LIAR. Not much wonder you call yourself CIRCUS. Your Nothing But A JOKE. Next time you call sombody a LIAR, You had better have ALL YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. Whats the point in talking to a clown like you in the First Place. You are One of those JUGHEADS that knowes everything about Nothing

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02XLT4X4

03-27-2008 10:06:53

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Re: the consensus is your a liar in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 09:38:53

Bruce Hopf said: (quoted from post at 09:38:53 03/27/08) Circus. It is very very oddvious that you are one of those Bozos, that are too bloddy lazy to google for information for your self, but rather sit back and call sombody a LIAR. Not much wonder you call yourself CIRCUS. Your Nothing But A JOKE. Next time you call sombody a LIAR, You had better have ALL YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. Whats the point in talking to a clown like you in the First Place. You are One of those JUGHEADS that knowes everything about Nothing

If you do your research somewere that isn't sponsered by the companies that make these products you will find different results.

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circus

03-27-2008 09:47:07

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Re: the consensus is your a liar in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 09:38:53

That's no secret.

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Bruce Hopf

03-27-2008 09:23:37

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

First, I'm Canadian.
Second, I'm no salesman for either product.
Third, I was only trying to help.
Forth, Every day there is always someboby Whinning about Gas Prices on this forum.
Fifth, When sombody offers advice on somthing like this, you run them down, or their suggestions. It shows who the poeple are, that Do all the Whinning are, that are too lazy to google up information for them selves, but rather Winne
Sixth, It is very sickening to read obout the same Isuess Day in and Day out. If you don't want to try, and somthing about it to help your sel'ves, thats your problem. Don't make your problems anybody elses.
Seventh, Both products are both made in what You Americans call, The Good Old United States Of America.

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Walt davies

03-27-2008 10:01:34

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 09:23:37

7th, if it works so go good then why isn't on every car from every manufacture.
Remember way back in the early 80s a guy came up with a little gadget that made your wipers run intermittent, didn't take long for it to get to all cars.

8th, I am almost 70 and have heard of the 100 MPG car all my life as of yet I haven't seen it come true yet.

Walt

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Bruce Hopf

03-27-2008 10:29:43

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Walt davies, 03-27-2008 10:01:34

Walt
I wasn't talking about 100 MPG. Iwas talking about Liters Per 100 Kilometers. Up here in Canada, we have this stupid metric system. Answer to your second, I've only heard of one or maby two of the imports,from over seas, are shipped for the factory, with the Tornado already installed. I asked that same question from the guy at the parts counter, at the dealership, and that is what they told me. The North American Products, don't do that, because they want to make more money selling these parts. Sorry if there was some confussion. I agree. I have never heard of a vehicle getting 100 MPG. One US Gallon = 3.78 Liters 1 Mile = 1.6093 KiloMeters Hope this helps understanding the two differentces in measurement. I wish we didn't have that stupid metric system. Up here in Canada we are paying $4.15 per US Gallon for Gas $4.38 per US Gallon for Clear Diesel As far as I"M concerned, every little bit helps to save money. Thats why I use these products. The help, and work. It up to you to save money, and fuel. All you have to do is Try. Its up to you. Both products the Tornado, and The K&N air Filter, have a Mony Back Gaurenty, if your not happy with their products.

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paul

03-27-2008 09:40:32

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 09:23:37

The filters allow more air flow, so we should have leaner mix, so should get better milage. But all engines are electronic these days, and set the fuel mix.

The Tornado would do the opposite of the filter, slow airflow down, so it should make milage worse. Or else, if it works, then the filters should be making the milage worse....

They come at things from opposite ends, and shouldn't work at all together, if either one works to begin with.

what happens, is people install these things - and the magnets I mentioned - and then drive better, because in their head they are wondering if they can get better milage.....

Well, gee, when thinking about it allt he time, you do get better milage. Cut your burnouts in 1/2, shut off the engine when you leave the vehicle, keep it under 70mph, and so on..... ;)

So, milage goes up. But it isn't the device itself. It's making the brain work.

So I believe you - your milage went up.

You coulda put a clothespin on your rear view mirror, and every time you see the pin you'd think to drive sensible, and that clothes pin also woulda increased your milage.....

Maintain the vehicle, and the biggest thing for better milage is fixing the driver's head, not adding stuff to the vehicle. :)

--->Paul

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02XLT4X4

03-27-2008 09:21:47

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Tornado's are a hoax, their theory is completly pointless in a fuel system where the fuel doesn't meet the incoming air until right before it goes into the chamber, and the chances of the air spinning the same way it did in the intake tube once it gets to the intake manifold (after it is divided into 4-8 seperate channels) is slim. I have also heard reports that they are so cheaply made they can actually turn sideways in the intake making a rather large obstruction which also does little to improve milage.
K&N's do have some merit, in that you don't have to replace them, you can just clean them. But if you don't do it properly you can muck up your MAF sensor and make your vehicle run poorly. They claim to flow 15% better than a stock paper filter... and on average it takes .3hp to pull air thru a paper one so that is how much you gain. They advertise that they filter better as they get dirtier, which I read as when they are clean they let more stuff by...

Best thing to do is to check your tire pressures, keep up on maintinance, take it easy on the skinny pedal, and drive the speed limit.

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buickanddeere

03-27-2008 08:26:27

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Hey. Americans can be just as foolish as Canadians while voting or believing these snake oil sales pitches.
I'm shocked at the number of people who have graduated from high school and don't understand the most basic laws of physics. Then again there is a very high dropout rate from schools.

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03-27-2008 10:06:23

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to buickanddeere, 03-27-2008 08:26:27

Buickanddeere - you'd be shocked at how many mechanical engineers with masters degree's don't understand physics. I'm working with one now and am teaching him all about springs...LOL!

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 07:53:19

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to e, 03-27-2008 10:06:23

Undergrad college is a basic education and is pretty much a broad spectrum of introducing students to facts.....about whatever they are studying.

Grad school usually concentrates in the area of choice for the student so other areas of the discipline can go undeveloped in the student's mind.

Doctorate is highly refined in one area and is designed to contribute something to the field of interest.

Other thing is you may have 20 years worth of experience in your field of springs. Obviously you know more than a late-teensager with one sememster of specific physics, if that much. So do him a favor and work together as a team. He can supply you with the calculations that define the spring function and you can help him with the application of the mathematics. I don't know about you, but I was very interested in the WHY's of why things did what they did. He can help you with that.

Mark

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03-29-2008 08:16:21

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Texasmark, 03-29-2008 07:53:19

Funny thing, he is about 3 years more senior than I am. And to your other point, he doesn't know the calculations to begin with which is the scary part. The spring equation is very simple....f=kx and was something we were taught in high school. It gets a little frustrating when the guy screws up the calculations using that equation three times in a row especially after an hour long lecture on how the f=kx equation works. And don't get me going on his FBD's :)

The question that goes through my head is why are we bothering to hire these so called "qualified graduate" and paying them all this money. Why not just get ambitious high school grads and teach them on the job. That's what seem to be doing anyways.

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paul

03-27-2008 08:36:14

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to buickanddeere, 03-27-2008 08:26:27

Harbor Frieght sells those magnets you put on the fuel line to properly line things up so you can what, double your milage too?

Man, my 1/2 ton pickup should be getting 45 mpg while I do my burnouts once I get all these wonderful products on it..... ;)

It's all big oil's fault you know! :) :) :)

--->Paul

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Bob Huntress

03-27-2008 08:12:07

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Salesman, make yourself useful. Does your company make a replacable element air filter for an 8N ford tractor? Despite your shameless sales pitch, I know several other mechanics that say K&N makes a useable product. You can just e-mail the info, vice opening a new thread.

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thurlow

03-27-2008 08:10:02

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

When sub-compact cars first came out, one of my neighbors bought one and his mileage kept going up and up..... .as the engine got "broken in". Eventually, it got so good, he'd have to periodically siphon out some gasoline.....

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jdemaris

03-27-2008 07:54:19

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Well, you've proved there are still people around the believe this stuff. Funny - that GM had to spend so much time and research on their "Vortec" engines - when they could of bought this Toronado vortex-toy for $50 per unit??

People have been playing with swirls and vortexes since internal-combustion engines were first invented. With diesels - the old Ricardo Comet vortex swirl chamber is still considered one of the most efficient. With modern gas engines - it's become extremely sophisticated, thanks to modern electronic test equipment. Once again, funny that a small company comes up with a $50 toy that provides better results than GM, Ford, and et. al. across the world. Must be a world-wide conspiracy?

I will also add - that anybody that saw a big jump in fuel mileage by adding a K&N air-filter, probably had a half-plugged filter to start with - or they drive everywhere at 4000 plus RPM.

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03-27-2008 10:51:43

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to jdemaris, 03-27-2008 07:54:19

"I will also add - that anybody that saw a big jump in fuel mileage by adding a K&N air-filter, probably had a half-plugged filter to start with - or they drive everywhere at 4000 plus RPM."

I agree with you on this. I have a 7.3 Power Stroke I put a K&N system on, I gained a "little" power with it, it is a lot noisier, but my fuel milegage dropped by at least 1-2 MPG. I had been told that mileage would increase, it did not. I Emailed K&N about it, I was told by K&N factory tech, they are NOT designed to increase mileage, they flow more air, and the computor will give the engine more fuel to compensate for the extra air and can get more power, but it is not desinged to increase mileage. Jim

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jdemaris

03-27-2008 11:18:36

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to JT, 03-27-2008 10:51:43

Even though I've got a lot of experience with diesels, I still have weak moments and fall "victim" to claims of better fuel mileage. I get hopeful, and somtimes my emotions tell me one thing, while my logic tells me another. Kind of like chasing girls in a bar-room after having a few too many (if you've ever fell victim to such behavior). This is not only for engine add-ons, but even for mileage claims in stock trucks. I still hear, or read, on a daily basis somebody somewhere with a Dodge Cummins truck getting 35 MPG, a Ford-IH 6.9 getting 30 MPG, a GM 6.2 getting 40 MPG, etc. &c. Funny, I've been working on of them since they came out - and have yet to see one come even close.

Around 25 years ago, I spent a lot time building and testing the magic "Pogue Vaporizer" carb. I'm lucky I didn't blow myself up.

With diesels? The stuff is endless - and I've yet to see anything that offers any real overall gains in fuel mileage.
K&N is a popular one, so are many products from Banks like their Stinger exhaust systems.

Generally speaking, it's hard to beat OEM equipment for general useage. But ?? Recently, the exhaust system fell off my 92 Dodge-Cummins. So, since I had to replace anyway, I got a custom made 4" exhaust. It was a tight squeeze to fit it all in - especially by the transfer case. Gains? None - absolutely zero. Now, maybe if I'd upped the horsepower way over stock - maybe the bigger pipes would of helped a little.

In regard to air intakes in diesels - most don't get run much over 2000 RPM - so the intake-air needs are not all that much. Now, if it was a high-tech gasser turning 6000 RPM, that'd be a whole different story.

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03-27-2008 14:33:20

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to jdemaris, 03-27-2008 11:18:36

Yep, I agree, I hear people with a 7.3PS that gets 20 mpg, would like see that. I did get about 20 one time, and I am still not convinced that that was a true reading, I normally get 14-16 depending on the time of year and the fuel I use. I have added bigger exhaust to gas engines, did it up mileage, no way, did it "appear" to give more power, yes. Jim

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Kelly C

03-28-2008 09:08:54

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to JT, 03-27-2008 14:33:20

I have a 7.3 power stroke. Unloaded on my trips to grandmas, Using the cruse control at 55 mph. I get 23 mpg.
Normal driving around town and warm ups ect I get 17. I can be a lead foot going to town :-)

These old diesels sure do well when at a constant rpm. Real effecient.

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Nancy Howell

03-27-2008 07:46:10

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

My mechanic warned me against the K&N filters. He said they could improve performance, but they absolutely must be changed more frequently or you could get dirt in your engine. Plus, since you use metric measures in your email, this makes me think your from overseas. Sorry, I"m suspicious of your email. I could be wrong, but to me your email sounds like a marketing ploy.

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dave2

03-27-2008 15:24:34

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Nancy Howell, 03-27-2008 07:46:10

Nancy Howell said: (quoted from post at 07:46:10 03/27/08) My mechanic warned me against the K&N filters. He said they could improve performance, but they absolutely must be changed more frequently or you could get dirt in your engine. Plus, since you use metric measures in your email, this makes me think your from overseas. Sorry, I"m suspicious of your email. I could be wrong, but to me your email sounds like a marketing ploy.

Damn Forners!!!!! !!!!!

Ma'am, just cause someone is in another country doesn't mean they are a crook out to get your hard earned money.. They used to burn people at the stake because someone thought they did something suspicious.

As for K&N filters, they look cool and some people claim a couple of MPG and a little more HP, but to me, the gains are not worth the price for the mod. Remember how tuff the highschool beaters used to sound when you turned the air filter cap upside down? You get about the same effect with a K&N (my experience anyway). But, if someone believes it works and wants to pass along what they think is good advice, why call them a crook or idiot? Just use or not use the tip as you see it. I didn't notice a price quote or address to send a check to.

Thanks for letting me vent,

Dave

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buickanddeere

03-28-2008 06:42:49

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flipped breather lid uel, and Gas Ecconomy for y... in reply to dave2, 03-27-2008 15:24:34

Seem to recall the breather lid on the 350 4 barrel would somehow flip over about a mile from home. Then on the return trip it would flip back into the factory position about a mile from home. On a calm night you could hear the secondaries open up from about a mile away. Installed a low restriction pipe between the airfilter and the throttle blades on the 6.0L LQ4. The straight pipe doesn't silence the intake roar. Had no idea how loud it was until the wife who is always late and in a hurry. Floored it from the driveway till out of sight down the road.

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 08:04:00

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Re: flipped breather lid uel, and Gas Ecconomy for in reply to buickanddeere, 03-28-2008 06:42:49

I had the 402 cu in big block in a '71 station wagon and the only way I could get any kind of performance out of that pig was to run it with the cover inverted. Course, as you mentioned, any time you hit the gas you got this roar.

I couldn't understand GM putting that stupid air inlet on those engines; I cussed it every time I had the hood up and saw it. I guess it was great for noise reduction but that was all.

Mark

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phillip d

03-27-2008 07:58:22

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Nancy Howell, 03-27-2008 07:46:10

Or,he may be from Canada and is only trying to help EH?lol.

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RusselAZ

03-27-2008 07:41:33

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

The scary part is you may vote.

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Steven f/AZ

03-27-2008 07:35:32

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

Do you have reasonable statistics and records to back up your claims?

Personally, I have kept track of the mileage on my vehicles since I bought them on a simple spreadsheet. Calculating fuel mileage based on two or three tankfuls is a joke. Unless you have records of fill-ups for at least 10,000 miles before and after your modifications - you have no reasonable proof.

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Steven f/AZ

03-27-2008 12:00:13

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-27-2008 07:35:32

Steven f/AZ said: (quoted from post at 07:35:32 03/27/08) Do you have reasonable statistics and records to back up your claims?

Again I ask...

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Fixerupper

03-27-2008 10:38:01

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Vehicl in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-27-2008 07:35:32

AMEN.

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rrlund

03-27-2008 07:30:55

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Bruce Hopf, 03-27-2008 07:22:14

You weren't around in the 70s were you? There were so many tricks to better mileage,if you did them all you'd have to drain it out twice a day. I remember when Shorty was a mechanic at the local IH dealer. They had a salesman out running the roads in an IH pickup. He kept complaining about his mileage. Shorty said he'd fix it. He did. He bolted a piece of 2x4 under the gas pedal!

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Rome

03-27-2008 07:45:33

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to rrlund, 03-27-2008 07:30:55

A 2X4 is a sure bet to increase mileage. My 2001 Dakota gets 17 m.p.g. at 60 m.p.h. Slow down to 50 and it goes up to 21 to 22. For local blacktop driving it works good. Out on the highway it's better to speed up than get run over and get waved at. Driving habits are still the most important factor in gas mileage.

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Texasmark

03-29-2008 08:06:36

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to Rome, 03-27-2008 07:45:33

Like my previous answer, slowing down does work. Since I do most of my driving at off-peak times and move over if in someone's way, I am not a hazard to navigation so to speak.

Mark

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jdemaris

03-27-2008 07:44:30

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to rrlund, 03-27-2008 07:30:55

Yeah, I tried many back in the 70s. Remember the magic "Pogue" vaporizing carburetor that provided 80 MPG on any fullsize car? And, of course the US auto-industry was keeping it secret.
I did kind of wonder - if the US was keeping it secret - why weren't people in Europe using it?
And also, if secret, how come I found out and was able to buy plans?

I built one and it was a virtual time-bomb. I had one on a 283 Chevy, and my friend put one on a Dodge slant-six. He did the best and got 35 MPG on one highway run while he constantly fiddles with mechancial controls. At low speeds it ran so lean it was not driveable.

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Brian Jasper co. Ia

03-29-2008 12:47:58

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Re: How to get better Fuel, and Gas Ecconomy for your Veh... in reply to jdemaris, 03-27-2008 07:44:30

I'm getting right about 18 mpg in a 98 Silverado with a 350. I run it 70 to 75 mph to work and back every day. I have a 94 Explorer that gets about the same 18 mpg, but you need to slow down to 55 mph to get it. The Chevy has one of those tonneau covers on it and a "Poweraid" spacer under the throttle body installed by a previous owner. I'm guessing if anything helps, the cover on the bed only because of improved aerodynamics.

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