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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question

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jdemaris

03-09-2008 09:00:18




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I've posted this question at the Ford forum also -but thought I might get a "non-Ford" person here that still has the answers.

I've got some farm land 1000 miles from where I live. Land is in northern Michigan. I've got an agricultural assessment on it and need to keep some fields cut. So, I've been trying to find a tractor up there - rather than trailer one of mine.

I just got a chance to buy a 1960 Ford 601 Workmaster with a 134 gas engine. Nice shape, been kept indoors since new. Has a later Dearborn front loader (all hydraulic - not a trip loader). New 5' brushhog, disk-harrows, new tires all around, and a back-blade. $4500 for the whole deal. I thought that was high at first -especially since I'm not a Ford enthusiest. But, after thinking about it - maybe it's a good deal.

I checked out the Ford spec #s on it - which read 641 108984. That tells me:

6 is - Four wheel utility type with adjustable front axle, 134 ci gas, LP-gas or 144 ci diesel engin

4 is - Four speed transmission with PTO and 3 point lift

1 is - "01" series '57 - '62

Serial # 108984 means the tractor is a 1960 model.

Tractor has power steering and a two-stage clutch for live PTO. My one concern is this. Since this only has a four-speed trans - and does NOT have the aux. trans option - is 1st too fast for certain things - especially running a three-point snow blower? I know that with any of my tractors at home, having low-range is a must.

Anybody got ground-speed specs for 1st gear in this Ford?

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JK-NY

03-09-2008 14:06:23




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 09:00:18  
Hi Jdemaris. I have a 19543 Ford NAA which is basically the same tractor as a 4 spd 641. 1st gear at 1750 rpm is 3.31 mph, at 2000rpm (wide open) 3.58. I will agree with the others, either the tractor is not a 641 or it doesnt have LPTO. Live pto via 2 stage clutch was available with the 5 speed trans and selectospeed trans only, not the 4 speed. 5 speeds were known as "pump shifters" as neutral was up and down and gear selection was moving the shifter forward or back, where the 4 speed was a conventional shift pattern. That is a fair price for what you describe if everything is in good shape.Do you have a rotary snowplow that you pull , or a blower that you back up with? Rv speed on the 4 speed at1750 rpm is 3.45, 2000 rpm is 3.96. Too fast to do much snowblower work in reverse. An overrunning clutch is a good idea with the 4 speed tractor(I use one on my NAA and do quite a bit of brush hogging with it) . The 5 speed may or may not be LPTO, the LPTO tractors have an overrunning cluch built in.Hope this helps.

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jdemaris

03-09-2008 14:24:03




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 Some photos in reply to JK-NY, 03-09-2008 14:06:23  
I use a rear-mounted 6 foot snow blower. A reverse gear of around 1 1/2 MPH at 1800 RPM is usually about right. I use my IH B-275 or my Deere 1020 with the blower - they both have dual-range transmissions and live PTOs.

3 MPH and over is way too fast. I've got a 1964 Ford 4000 here with a four speed - but it also have a Sherman three-speed aux. trans. I always have it in low range on my property.

I've used an overrunning clutch on my Case VACs on those rare occasions when I put a bush-hog on them. They are the only tractors I own without live power.

I live in dairy farm country and there's no shortage of older tractors around here. Ford 8Ns, 600s, 800s, 4000s, etc are common in the $1000 - $3000 price ranges. But, I don't find much for sale in northern Michigan. And - considering the guy is asking $4500 for all - take off the new brush hog, disks, back-blade, and front-loader, and the tractor itself is selling for around $2000. I'd much rather find a diesel, a dual range trans, and live power but wanting and getting are two different things.

I'd like to get a good all-around tractor - which this may not be - but it still may be worth buying for that price. All I need it for, at least for now, is running a brush hog.

He just sent me these photos - but can't see the trans.

third party image

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JK-NY

03-09-2008 14:53:37




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 Re: Some photos in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 14:24:03  
Maybe he can take a picture of the trans. top cover , for both 4 and 5 speeds ,the shift pattern is embossed on it, thats the easiest way I can think of to check from a distance. If it is in as good shape as it appears ,it is a decent price, but only if it will do what you need of it. Even if it isnt 5 spd/lpto , you can get along fine with an ovverrunning clutch for the brush hog.My NAA is my only non- live pto tractor, but its small size and underslung exhaust make it a nice brush hogging tractor. Sorry to hear your still planning on bailing out on us here in NY , be sure to take the computer when you go so you can keep in touch.

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jdemaris

03-09-2008 16:08:50




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 Re: Some photos in reply to JK-NY, 03-09-2008 14:53:37  
I've lived in hills of Vermont and New York for most of my life - and don't know if I could ever get used to Michigan flat-land, but we'll see.
This is more about my wife getting to live near her parents - and our last little kid getting to know his grandparents. I complain about NY a lot - but, I complain about everything. This is one of the most beautiful places in the country.
I bought rural land in northern MI last fall with snow on the ground - so I haven't even seen it yet when all is green. Maybe I'll go there this spring and change my mind about everything.

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Ultradog MN

03-09-2008 10:43:10




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 another thought in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 09:00:18  
There are a lot of folks who get live hydraulics and live pto mixed up.
Could he be making that mistake?



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jdemaris

03-09-2008 11:07:22




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 Re: another thought in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2008 10:43:10  
I asked him specifically if the PTO stops when he pushes the clutch in. He claims the clutch is two stage - half-way down and he can shift trans without the PTO stopping.

I guess he might have a 5 speed and not know it - but he claims it's a 4 speed and that's what the spec numbers say.

Maybe, since a brush runs a long time by it's own interita - he just assumes it's live PTO because it keeps on spinning during gears shifts?

Buying stuff at a distance like this gets kind of frustrating.

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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2008 12:05:33




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 Re: another thought in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 11:07:22  
At any rate, let us know how this all works out.



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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2008 11:54:11




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 Re: another thought in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 11:07:22  
Ultradog makes an excellent point. Make sure you check out the shift pattern on a 660 or 860 beforehand to familiarize yourself with how that works. This guy might have 5 speeds fwd and not know it. Maybe you can find one on a local lot.



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Ultradog MN

03-09-2008 10:39:31




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 09:00:18  
I agree with the others here and on the Ford board. NO LPTO on a tractor with a 4 speed.
Only thing I can think of is maybe the seller is unaware of the goofy up/down shifter patern on the 5 speed.
In my opinion, that tractor with the added impliments, tires etc. is a pretty good deal.
Let us know what you find.



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john-mi

03-09-2008 09:04:02




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 09:00:18  
It is not possible to have a 2 stage clutch with a 4 speed transmission. 4 speeds have live hyd, but not live PTO.



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jdemaris

03-09-2008 09:21:12




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to john-mi, 03-09-2008 09:04:02  
Well, yeah, that was what I thought. But, I know the guy personally that has owned this tractor for 10 years. He swears up and down that it absolutley has a two-stage clutch. He does a lot of brush-hogging with it - and states that he pushes the clutch half-way down to shift gears (and PTO keeps going) and pushes clutch all the way down to stop the PTO. It's a major point since I'd told him I wouldn't buy unless it's got live power.

This guy is not a tractor expert but is a pretty smart guy around mechancal stuff. I'm 1000 miles away and taking his word for it - for now. And, as I said - I'm not a Ford person. I spend most of my life working on Deere, Case, and IH. I own one Ford - it's a 1964 4000 - but mine has no PTO and also have the Sherman aux. trans.

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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2008 09:37:01




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 09:21:12  
Fwd speeds on the 4 speed 640/1 were listed as: 1st=3.13, 2nd=4.02, 3rd=5.54, 4th=11.55. It's not supposed to have a two-stage clutch if it's a 4 speed. The only thing a non-live pto would rule out, in my mind, would be the snow blower, which is not part of the deal anyway. Besides, I don't think that little tractor could handle a snow blower in N MI. Not for serious snow anyway. Otherwise, that appears to be a "good deal". New bush hog, blade, disc, new tires. Add all that up and you're down to dirt cheap for the tractor. You don't really "need" a live pto for bush hogging and surely don't need it for blading or discing and with a loader on it, too? The blade and the loader should handle snow just fine.

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jdemaris

03-09-2008 10:14:04




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-09-2008 09:37:01  
I do a lot of brush hogging and snow blowing here in New York - and much prefer a live PTO for both. It's nice to be able to shift gears, push the clutch in, etc. and not have the PTO stop.
Not a big issue on a big field when you don't stop often. It IS an issue when you do stop or shift often. Also, with some non-live setups - the brushhog can push the tractor around via the PTO unless you stick an overrunning clutch on it. My Case VACs do that. I don't know about the Ford.

As far as the 601 not handling a snowblower?
We get more snow here where I live in New York - than then northern Michigan does. I'm talking about northern MI just below the Mac bridge in Presque Isle County - NOT the UP. We get 10 feet a year on average here - but many years we get more. I've also got land a bit further north in New York that gets much more snow than the UP. I run a 6 foot snowblower with either my IH B-275s (144 diesels) or my Deere 1020 (135 gas) - and neither have more power than the Ford 601. They both do fine in 3' to 4' of snow.

If 1st gear is 3 MPH , that's way too fast to be of much use for snowblowing. The engine would have to be throttled down to go slow enough - and at that low speed it'd lack engine power. My Cletrac dozer was like that until I added an aux. trans. My IHs and Deere both have dual ranges and I couldn't use either for blowing snow without.

Being able or not to run a snowblower is not a major issue if the price is right. My situation is this. I have many dozers, backhoes, farm tractors, etc. where I live in New York. But, I'm considering moving to Michigan. So, whatever I buy for working the property now, might have other uses once I move there later. I haven't figured out yet if I'd sell off my equipment here, or pay the money and move it. So, since I don't know what my future is yet - I'd like to buy a tractor that is all-around useful to me, and not just a brush cutter.

This two-stage clutch thing is a mystery to me. The guy that owns it seems to know what he's talking about. I've got no way of verifying unless I find someone to check it for me in his area. He swears it has it - and all I read says it does not.

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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2008 11:48:34




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 Re: Ford 601 Workmaster ground-speed question in reply to jdemaris, 03-09-2008 10:14:04  
Yes, I prefer live pto as well. All in all, I still think the price is right on this tractor. It will need an ORC, same as your VAC should have for bush hogging. Fords of that era are virtually indestructible. Parts galore for them, handy as all get out. Properly maintained they'll be around for 50 more years.



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