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Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither?

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in-too-deep

02-21-2008 12:20:52




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I say it can't be classified because it's not a current, just one big splash of electricity. My friend says it's gotta be AC or DC and wants to know which it is. Thanks!




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guido

02-22-2008 12:56:12




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
In-to-deep
I vote D.C.
If it kicks you like a mule its D.C.
If it A.C. it will not let you go!
Guido.



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KEB1

02-21-2008 19:09:09




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Since one of my previous job responsibilities was figuring out how to protect aircraft from the effects of lightning, I have a pretty good idea of what happens.

Lightning is best described as "pulsed DC". The leader that initially establishes the discharge path is, in simple terms, a static charge which has reached sufficient potential to ionize a path through the air. This ionized path is what eventually carries the actual lighting discharge. There is very little current associated with the leader, and as far as how lightning affects people, buildings, etc., the leader can be ignored.

Once an ionized path is established, the part of the discharge that we see (and that creates thunder) occurs. This is an initial high current pulse, called the first return stroke, which may reach 100,000 amperes in a severe strike. This current decays rapidly (on the order of milliseconds)to a much lower level. Most of the actual charge transfer occurs during this longer lower level discharge, which is limited by how fast the charge can move to replace what was originally discharged. If 100,000 amperes isn't current, I don't know what is!!!

Sometimes the initial discharge is followed by repeated discharges when enough charge flows into the vicinity of the ionized path before the path dissipates, and creates a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) flash. This phenomenon is why lightning sometimes appears to flicker - it really is a series of discharges.

In a single strike, current only flows in one direction. Cloud-to-ground strikes generally originate in a pocket of negative charge in the cloud, i.e., the cloud is negative with respect to the earth. Cloud-to-ground strikes can also originate in a positively charged area of a cloud, in which case the earth is negative with respect to the cloud. A positive charge is simply a lack of electrons, a negative charge is a surplus of electrons. In a cloud-to-cloud strike, the leader can initiate in either a positive or negative pocket of charge.

I've attached a link to a NASA website with a good discussion of lightning.

To answer the original question, yes, lightning is in fact a very large pulse of electrical current. Any individual strike is DC, as charge only moves in one direction. A single lightning strike may contain multiple discharges, but they will all be of the same polarity. Other strikes may be the opposite polarity, but the polarity does not change during an individual discharge.

Keith

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KEB1

02-21-2008 19:19:24




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 Interesting trivia in reply to KEB1, 02-21-2008 19:09:09  
Did you know that in the Unites States, the average airliner is struck by lightning an average of a little more than once per year? Most of the time the passengers never know, as transport aircraft are pretty well protected against the effects of a lightning attachment.

Keith



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T_Bone

02-21-2008 22:07:06




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 Re: Interesting trivia in reply to KEB1, 02-21-2008 19:19:24  
Thanks Keith as that was a interesting write up!


T_Bone



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MarkB_MI

02-21-2008 17:58:23




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
An engineer would describe lightning as an impulse. An impulse theoretically has infinite magnitude but zero duration. You can only have a true impulse in mathematical terms, but a lightning bolt is close enough. One of the characteristics of an impulse is that it contains all frequencies from zero to infinity. That's why lightning interferes with radios (particularly AM radios that operate at low frequencies): the impulse generates rf energy across all broadcast bands.

Now, technically, lightning does not alternate: it travels in one direction only. But the rapid change of current is effectively high frequency because it has a very high rate of change.

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dave guest

02-21-2008 16:45:28




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Maybe pulsating DC. Like a little bit of both. Must be a science professor out there or don't they like tractors?



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DiyDave

02-21-2008 15:54:31




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Its DC, look back to Franklin's original experiments. He charged a Leyden jar (capacitor) from a lightning bolt. If it was AC, he would have said Don't tase me, bro!



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phillip d

02-21-2008 15:54:16




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
It has 2.21 giggawatts and can make a Deloren travel in time! lol pd.



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garytomaszewski

02-21-2008 21:15:31




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to phillip d, 02-21-2008 15:54:16  
Not without a "flux capacitor"



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jdemaris

02-21-2008 14:25:38




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
By strict defintion of the terms, lightning is neither.

Direct current is - by defintion - current in one direction, period.

Alternating current is a term that was created to desribe planned and consistent variating current - i.e. "cycles."

Lighting is a mass of "direct type currents" going every which way, and is scientifically referred to as something like "unidirectional" or "mutidirectional" current.

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moonlite 37

02-21-2008 14:01:40




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
It is not a current but a charge.



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Old Roy agiin

02-21-2008 13:22:46




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Definitely DC [directed current



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IH2444

02-21-2008 13:14:29




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Form a show I saw lightening will often jump both ways before it equalizes things out.
I think it is DC though.



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MF Poor

02-21-2008 13:08:49




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Dept of energy's opinion



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Walt Davies

02-21-2008 13:02:24




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Kind of depends on what kind of tractor you are riding on at the time doesn't it. An Ac or Case DC should make quite a difference when it strikes you.
Walt



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ScottyHOMEy

02-21-2008 13:00:08




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
It's definitely a current.

I did a little googlin' and found that most lightning is a negative charge in a cloud discharging to ground, and that a typical bolt will carry about 40kA, that's 40,000 amps, at a voltage up to 3 million volts per meter of length of the lightning bolt (i.e., one gigavolt for every 1000 feet). That qualifies as current in my book.

Couldn't find anything in a quick search that answers your AC/DC queston directly, but I favor DC. There's no changing of polarity in a cloud like an alternator puts out. It's straight discharge, whether the typical negative type (cloud to ground) or positive (ground to cloud).

Ain't it nice that lightning is positive ground?

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Bill(Wis)

02-21-2008 16:15:42




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 02-21-2008 13:00:08  
So were our cars until General Motors came along.



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buickanddeere

02-21-2008 12:55:37




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
Static electricity is DC. With lightening sometimes a downward leader is mentioned. Then an up strike or up stroke? In any case it's a bunch of electrons getting gradually torn away and deposited somewhere else. They eventually make the jump to get "home" all in one split second.



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soundguy

02-21-2008 12:34:29




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
It's not 'current' you say.. but it is 'electricity'.. Good one!

DC current does not change direction.. IE.. electrons flow to the positive charg.. alternating current, the polarity swaps back and forth.

While both can be made to jump an arc gap ( air gap ).. my bet is on DC..

Whatcha think electricity is.. perhaps? motive electons maybee?

google Static electricity.

soundguy



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glennster

02-21-2008 12:26:14




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
i dunno, i got hit by it once, didnt much care for it!!!!



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sparkplug

02-21-2008 18:08:54




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to glennster, 02-21-2008 12:26:14  
you been....THUNDASTRUCK!!!
sorry, couldn't resist what with all the talk about lightening and AC/DC.



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Billy NY

02-21-2008 15:21:13




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to glennster, 02-21-2008 12:26:14  
No, did not like it either, just missed me as a kid, had just found a lawn jart and was checking out how they work, never saw one before, was tossing it around in one of our pens, kind of convienent to have one of those in your hand then have your hair stand up, I remembered to hit the deck, did so instantly, not sure where it hit, but it was the loudest thing I'd ever heard. Glad I had longer hair then and learned what to do if it ever happened, was just like that static thing you touch and makes your hair stand up.

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JMS/.MN

02-21-2008 18:15:29




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to Billy NY, 02-21-2008 15:21:13  
I got a secondary hit as a kid- milking cows. Evening thunderstorm, jolt came through the powerline, into the barn, stalls, etc. Head against a cow"s belly when all the cows went to their knees. Course, that would explain a lot of things since then!



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T.K.in Pa

02-21-2008 14:42:21




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to glennster, 02-21-2008 12:26:14  
I didn't like it either



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Goose

02-21-2008 12:23:28




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to in-too-deep, 02-21-2008 12:20:52  
I'd vote for DC.



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Gene-AL

02-21-2008 18:49:46




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 Re: Is Lightning AC, DC, or Neither? in reply to Goose, 02-21-2008 12:23:28  
My take:
Lightning is the dissipation of charged particles (ion and electron) built up in the atmosphere. When electrons are separated from their atoms by some means (chemical, friction, photoelectric, electromagnetic or some other way) an electrostatic charge exists on the atoms from which the electrons were removed (positive) and the electrons themselves (negative). When these separated charges accumulate together to build up enough emf (voltage) to ionize the air, or whatever is between them and an oppositely charged accumulation, an arc of electrical current occurs allowing the ions and electrons to recombine and the charge is nullified. The energy dissipated in the arc, in the form of heat, light and radio waves, is the energy originally built up (in the case of lightning) by violent friction in the atmospheric currents that caused the ionization in the first place. What may not be so obvious is that the charge 'that made your hair stand up' is between an atmospheric 'cloud' of charges and the earth, itself, which has the same charge as you, since you are standing on it. The object on the earth that offers the best ionization path between the two charges will be 'struck' if and when the voltage potential reaches the ionization point. And, it probably makes little difference if you are on your tractor with rubber tires unless it has a metal cab surrounding you. Lightning is the gorrilla in the electrical world!

Tall AM radio towers have guy wires with insulators spaced at intervals between the tower & earth. Often when a thunderstorm is building up, there is periodic arcing across the insulators (all at once in each guy) due to the build up of charges in the atmosphere around the wires with respect to earth. They discharge with loud cracks and simultaneous blue arcs across the insulators, even though there may not be any lightning strikes taking place nearby.
Be aware of where you are when a thunderstorm threatens, you may not get any warning before becoming a part of an arc path!
Is lightning AC or DC? The arc evidently has components of both, but it started out as DC.

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