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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T ford diesel

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Roy in georgia

02-16-2008 06:32:45




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as many may know from previous post I have a f-350 w/6.9 and the auto trans will not hold up my thoughts is to find a 5 speed out of a 7.3 truck as they didn't put a 5 speed in the older 6.9s. to my understanding the 6.9 and 7.3 are the same block and all the stuff off the 7.3 will work on it I have a friend who has a 94 f-350 that he says is worn out and beat up from being used as a welding outfit hauler and he will sell it to me as a parts truck so I can do the swap. After all that does anyone have some insight to add on this project?Oh! I also plan on using the flywheel and related parts to do the swap

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T_Bone

02-16-2008 13:47:16




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
Hi Roy,

I remember reading a thread at thedieselstop.com where they were trying to stuff a ZF 5spd auto in a 2000??? and they ran into a convertor length problem.

Maybe the convertpr was longer so it would require all from the engine back including new cross member and adapter plate. You'd have to look up the thread for details of there problems.

T_Bone



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hd6gtom

02-16-2008 12:16:32




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
Roy It sounds like you are having the same problems we had with ours. In the two years we had it, the tranny was out 3 times, engine was replaced once and rear end twice. When the tranny went out the 4th time we sent it to the scrap yard, didnt want anyone else to get that problem. We put 4 sets of glow plugs in it from ford. The 5th set were oldsmobile glow plugs. They are, acording to the ford mechanic, 12 volt. According to him the ford are 6 volt and wont stand up, cost was the same.

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Roy in georgia

02-16-2008 13:30:51




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to hd6gtom, 02-16-2008 12:16:32  
the trans is the only thing giving a problem if I could get a trans. that worked as good as the rest I would be fine



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george md

02-16-2008 11:05:00




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
Roy,

The flywheel is not the same , 7.3 uses a dual mass flywheel and 6.9 does not. The 5 speed is an overdrive trans and low gear is fast enough to be 2nd or 3rd when used with a set of rear
gears that go with a direct trans. The 4 speed is an american made trans , the 5 speed is a ZF ( german) and is not one of their better trys at building a trans. The o/d is a small add on section in the back with separate lube and some bearings that are only available from ford. The 5 speed was designed to work with a 5.44 rear gear set and yours should be a 3.55 or if some fool ordered it maybe a 4.10.

george

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jdemaris

02-16-2008 14:26:31




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to george md, 02-16-2008 11:05:00  
Not all the 94 F350s with 7.3 diesels came with dual-mass flywheels, and many of those that did, got converted back to a standard one-piece.

About the gear ratios - how do you figure the 5 speed is designed for a 5.44 axle ratio? That truck would be revving at 2800 RPM at 65 MPH which is not good for a diesel. It would be awful to drive. Most of the 6.9 diesel Fords with C6 autos came with 3.55s or 4.10s. A 3.55 with a ZF5 will rev 1850 RPM at 65 MPH, and with a 4.10 it will rev around 2100 RPM which is a great setup for an rig used for towing and light use.

My Dodge with the Cummins 5.9 has the Gertrag 5 speed and 3.50 axles and works great - for towing and for highway driving.

Gertrag 5 speed is geared: 1st 5.53 2nd 3.02 3rd 1.60 4th 1.00 5th 0.77

ZF 5 speed for diesel is geared: 1st 4.14 2nd 2.37 3rd. 1.42 4th 1 5th .076

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george md

02-16-2008 19:11:25




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to jdemaris, 02-16-2008 14:26:31  
Jd, You are absolutely correct that one with a 5.44 axle would be terrible to drive, but that is what ford put in the 89 450 series . It had spicer 80 series rear and there are no ratios below 5.44 untill you get down to the low 3.--. I rebuilt the 7.3 for one of my customers and drove it quite a bit,it was miserable to drive. It was geared too slow in high and that trans is way too fast in low gear even with the low rear .

The trucks with 4 speed or auto trans and 3.55
really drove nice . Those with 4.10 had hard time
maintaining speed on a hill, had to lug down too
far for the next shift to not run up against the governor.(Those had the auto trans )

george

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jdemaris

02-17-2008 06:21:51




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to george md, 02-16-2008 19:11:25  
I agree - but the guy didn't mention anything about medium duty trucks like the F450s - just mentioned the F350. By the way, I have two Ford diesels - one a 6.9 with 4.10s with a C6 - and it's been a great truck but awful to drive past 60 MPH. My other is a 7.3 IDI turbo with 4.10 axles and overdrive. It will drive fine at 75 MPH. Oddly, my 92 5.9 Cummims with 3.50 axles easily outpulls all my Fords.

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Roy in georgia

02-16-2008 16:33:52




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to jdemaris, 02-16-2008 14:26:31  
I am on the same page as you on the set up but didn't have the #s seems like you have it all figured out thanks. I got this truck with a new trans (rebuilt) by one of the best guys in town and it didn't even have 100,000 miles on it and it was the third trans when it went out my uncle gave my his old f-250 that had a dead cylinder and I put the trans in mine so now I have a complete parts truck with everything I don't need yet.Even with the dead cylinder it had more take off than mine so I think it had a much lower gear ratio. Thought many times about swapping gears but didn't want to hurt the top end or have the revs out of sight to cruse 60 mph.

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Roy in georgia

02-16-2008 13:33:28




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to george md, 02-16-2008 11:05:00  
I haven't checked the gear ratio but it seems high and that may be my problem



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jdemaris

02-16-2008 09:32:53




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesels up to the middle of model year 1994 use an International Harvester 404 and 445 gas engine bolt pattern. Autos bolt direct, and manual transmissions use special adapters made by Ford to get them to mate. If you have an original C6 three-speed auto trans, it is extremely rugged. If your's won't stay together - you've got a problem outside the scope of transmission design. 6.9 and 7.3 IH diesels in Fords are all IDIs up to the middle of model year 1994. After mid-1994 the 7.3s are DI Powerstrokes. All the IDI 6.9s and 7.3s are the same bolt pattern - I'm not 100% sure with the 94 1/2 Powerstrokes, but I do know they used other upgraded parts.

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rrlund

02-16-2008 08:01:04




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
Last thing I switched over was a 63 Chevy Impala back in the day. As I recall,hanging the clutch pedal was the only issue. Drive shaft is probably going to be a different length. As long as you have a parts truck to rob from,I don't see where there would be any big issues.I think I'd put a ring gear on that flywheel while it's out.



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dieselpaul

02-16-2008 07:54:37




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  

i agree with john m--usually that auto trans is pretty tough--interested in why replacements are failing-if you just prefer std shift, ok, but it is a lotta work, diff. ratio, speedo prob. off a little--also high milage man. trans. can be a money pit too. good luck-paul



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dieselpaul

02-16-2008 07:37:12




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  

if '94 7.3 is early model idi engine, everything should work fine--you will probably have to plan on flywheel/clutch assy if it high milage dual-mass unit (stock)-$$$. installing clutch pedal under dash is kinda a pain-look everything over--replace worn parts-any lost motion here results in having to push pedal hard against firewall--there is no adjustment on hydraulic clutch.



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John M

02-16-2008 06:59:42




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 Re: O/T ford diesel in reply to Roy in georgia, 02-16-2008 06:32:45  
What is it that your doing that the tranny wont hold up? Give this guy a call, he may be able to help without you having to do the swap. Would save some time and money, maybe?



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