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oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap

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Dan O.

02-09-2008 19:43:00




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I'm having trouble timing my 354 perkins injection pump. Had an 1850 with a tied up motor, purchased a 354 out of a 510 massey combine. Used oliver book to time pump after motor installed, will not start. looked at pump and the snap ring is in a different location than the old one was. Don't have a book for a 510. Oliver say to bring 28 degrees static and time with "F" on pump to edge of snap ring. This is not working. Can anyone tell me how to set the pump timing from Massey's version? Thanks. P.S. Don't try an engine swap of this kind. I ignored all infromation on this site about what a pain it can be-and every step of this has been a pain. It can be done, but patience and a lot of spare time to spend on this is necessary.

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Dan-IA

02-10-2008 11:46:46




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:43:00  
Hey! I've been thinking about doing a similar project. I've got no shortage of 510 Masseys, and if I can find an oliver with a bad engine at a bone yard, it sounds like a joy to do.



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rrlund

02-10-2008 08:37:13




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:43:00  
I didn't think it was that bad a job. Not a direct swap by any means and I think I've warned about that,but the big thing is to be REAL careful with those timing gears when you change the front cover. I had to take the plate off where the tach cable hooks,take the bolts out of the gear,take it off and jump it back one cog to get the timing right.



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J Schwiebert

02-10-2008 03:47:49




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:43:00  
Forget that memthod and do it right! I sent you an e-mail with my phone number. J.



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Dan O.

02-10-2008 15:44:01




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to J Schwiebert, 02-10-2008 03:47:49  
John, I have the numbers you requested. The # on the block is 354UA6104oL. Pump #'s-DPA-3269F150, Serial-R57583RT, Model-YR62/550/6/2090. I spoke w/ George and he have me some alternatives to try. I appreciate both you guy's help getting this set correctly. Let me know what you come up with when you get time.



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george md

02-09-2008 20:15:17




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:43:00  
Dan, My guess is that the pump has been rebuilt and the pump shop did not set the end of the snap ring where it should be. Had this happen to me on a 354 in a MF 400 crawler,did overhaul on engine and had pump rebuilt ,could not make it run.

There are two ways to get around the problem, but I doubt I can type long enough to explain it . Email me a phone # and I'll get you thru it.

george

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135 Fan

02-09-2008 19:51:48




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:43:00  
I think you need to find out if the engines are spec'd the same. It is common to have different timing and other settings for the same engine used in different applications. Dave



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Dan O.

02-11-2008 12:02:12




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to 135 Fan, 02-09-2008 19:51:48  
I must be missing something. This has to be more simple. I've had the pump off about 10 times checking the alignment marks compared to flywheel tdc, even pulled tank, valve cover, etc. to make sure I'm on tdc for sure. Everything lines up correctly, only have smoke, no fire. Tried Georges idea of bringing the pump @ #1 fuel bulge in pipe with flywheel @ tdc, no luck. Pulled tractor around barn yard after (again) setting tdc compression, aligning pump marks and installing, same thing, only smoke, but at least I had oil psi. Was worried about cranking so much w/ no oil psi before. Any additional info, I'm all ears. Can't believe I'm this stumped. Thanks.

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Dan O.

02-25-2008 05:04:38




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-11-2008 12:02:12  
Finally have tractor running!! For those who are interested, after logging approx 40 man hours timing, retiming, and re-retiming, finally solved it by finding flywheel timing mark TDC is in the wrong location on wheel. I used the Massey crank with the oliver flywheel and am assuming the bolt holes are drilled in a different position than the Oliver crank. I was approx 30+ degrees off. Once I positively found TDC by using a dial indicator and an exhaust valve to measure to the center of TDC, I set the pump timing and it started just like it's supposed to. Used a paint pen to mark the "new" TDC mark on flywheel and will scribe a new mark if motor is ever removed again. Special thanks to J. and all the others that sent information to help.


Dan O.

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