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OT Any photographers out there?

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Dave H (MI)

01-23-2008 10:40:48




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Just found out for sure that we lost our team photographer for our basketball team. Don't really know how to reach him to ask this question.
He took really great action shots of the girls inside the gym and I would like to do the same. I am great at catching them in action but our little Kodak digital camera doesn't really get the quality of shots he did. His were clear and bright and mine are a tich blurred and sepia toned from all the yellow glare off the floor. Could anyone recommend a nice (hopefully not too expensive) digital camera or maybe some ideas for taking better shots? I have played with all the settings on this one....I don't think it is going to work. Nice little camera for outside shooting though.

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Dave H (MI)

01-23-2008 18:09:36




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
Heavens....all that work on the tractor last summer was a walk in the park compared to this! Appreciate all the responses! It will take me a little time to absorb all this but...I shall return with questions. Thanks again!



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Howard H.

01-23-2008 18:44:30




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 18:09:36  

That's funny! :)

The one other piece of advice I'd suggest is DON'T walk into Circuit City and/or Best Buy and listen to those guys...

They are almost always just kids starting out and don't really know anything - but they are getting paid to act like they do!

Ask anyone with experience and/or read up on the websites that were mentioned... Just like with tractors - experience is the best teacher!

HH

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71ford100

01-23-2008 16:00:17




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I had the champion photo and reserve champion at our county fair the last two years. I use a Canon GSX film camera so I doubt you are looking into that area. Good luck



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kyhayman

01-23-2008 15:27:31




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I"ve shot some sports photography though normally I do studio and print work. Any of the good DSLR"s will do what you want. The camera isnt what makes great images, its the photographer first and then the lens. It pains me to say it, but Canon is probably your best bet (since I shoot Olympus). Reason being is the lenses are so much cheaper. For sports I use at least a 200mm lens and bigger is in this case better. I like to take two cameras, one set up with a long lens and one with a regular 14-45 studio lens for action close to where I am. Dont get hung up on megapixels. I use a 5.0 MP Olympus E-1 and an 8 MP Olympus E 300.

Editing software will cover a multitude of camera sins but once again, there is a lot to using it beyond what I have found in print. I use Photoshop 5.5 and 9.0.

After you get your stuff, get to know your lighting. Each gym and each type of lighting will have a different temperature. The easiest way to deal with this I"ve found is to shoot in camera raw. You can then correct temperature in your editing program. Its a memory hog though. I get 56 images on a 1 GB card in raw and 256 in high resolution JPG. Personally, I shoot sports with the f stop set to where I want it for the depth of field and the shutter on auto. Sometimes you get some dark images but you can boost exposure in your editing. Hard set your film speed at no more than ISO 200 though, otherwise film grain and noise can be a real problem. I get a lot of problems with that in concert footage. Once again, your editing software can help you out. Instead of correcting grain duplicate a layer, gaussian blur 1-2 MP in the top layer, and then reduce opacity. A lot of grain just melts away.

My email is open if you have questions. I"ve linked one of my online pages here.

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cj3b_jeep

01-24-2008 06:49:25




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to kyhayman, 01-23-2008 15:27:31  
ISO 200, at f/2.8 would get you about 1/30th of a second in most high school gyms. I've done this for years and have never seen a high school gym where you were not at min. 1600 iso. Even the Gund (Quicken loans) arena in Cleveland, where I shoot quite a bit, is an 800 iso arena.



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kyhayman

01-24-2008 11:19:13




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to cj3b_jeep, 01-24-2008 06:49:25  
Why shoot it at f 2.8? That seems like a mighty limited depth of field. At 1600 how are you avoiding noise? There have been places I've had to shoot at 800, one comedy club in particular drives me nuts with that since they limit access from the press to the stage. Normally I set at either f/5.6 or f/8 for gyms and areans, unless Im not on the floor. Any more if I cant get floor access or all access I really dont like to fool with shooting it. At f/5.6 you could drop to ISO400 film speed if your at f2.8 and shooting ISO1600 and hold shutter speed constant, that will make a world of noise go away. Thats where I wish I had one more set of telephoto glass, to get the really tight shots at a longer range. But I can see dropping 4 grand into lens that I would only use for sports and wildlife.

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Goose

01-23-2008 15:14:36




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I use a Samsung digital camera with a 5x zoom on the job doing insurance inspections. It does what I want it to.

However, for serious photos, we have a Minolta 35mm with a zoom lens. It cost about $900 in the 1980's, but you can't beat it for action shots. I've been to NASCAR races, stood near the inside edge of the track, and stopped cars going 180-200 mph like they were standing still on the track.

Guess what you need to do is decide what you want a camera to do, and spec the camera accordingly.

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Janicholson

01-23-2008 13:22:31




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I recommend a Sony Digital Still camera. 10Mega Pixels or more. Mine is 3yrs old and great. DSC-828 with a Carl Zeiss Lense. $750 will do the deed. Image stability, Light ballance, and A big apature. (2.5 at medium distance settings) will be good. JimN



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Bob M

01-23-2008 12:19:09




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I’m not a photographer. However I’ve shot literally 10’s of thousands digital images of everything from tractor pulls to kid’s sporting events - many under difficult lighting conditions.

I own “prosumer” level superzoom cameras by Canon, Olympus and Sony (my current “primary” camera is an older model Sony H1). I’ve been pleased with every one. Presuming you are on a limited budget I’d recommend something along this line.

Be looking for the following features:

- 10x (minimum) OPTICAL zoom. Pay no attention to claims about digital zoom range – it’s only marketing fluff.

- Optical image stabilization. This is absolutely required for hand-held sports photography. And it's a godsend for low light photography.

- User adjustable ISO settings. It’s same as using faster ISO film in a film camera. However keep in mind faster ISO’s give grainier photos. My experience is ISO 400 on a digital camera is marginal – faster ISO’s are so grainy as to be pretty much useless.

- User adjustable white balance. Let’s you “tune” the image color balance to compensate for the the myriad wierd hues of indoor lighting so prevalent in gymnasiums, etc.

- Shortest possible shutter lag time (the time delay between when you push shutter release and the exposure is actually taken). Under poor lighting some digital cameras require upwards of 1 second from the time the button is pushed and when the shot is actually taken. - User selectable continuous autofocus. This significantly reduces the shutter lag above. However continuous autofocus can chew through batteries at an alarming rate.

----

Like Howard suggests poke around in Steves Digicams. You will find more good info (including objective camera tests) than you can ever possibly need.

Also If you can, borrow a camera and try it out for yourself under your "real world" conditions. You'll know very quickly whether it's gonna do the job for you!

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JT

01-23-2008 11:49:20




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
My wife has a Nikon D50 that will do what you want. Not cheap, but it is not real bad in price. I think they are down to around $600.00 or something like that. she can take 5 pictures while my Kodak Z740 is still thinking about taking the first one. But I do not need an expensive camera to take tractor pictures. The only bad thig about her camera is the zoom is not much without buying a new lense. It is a digital SLR camera with auto focus
Jim

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JT

01-23-2008 13:40:46




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to JT, 01-23-2008 11:49:20  
wrong number hers is a D40



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Howard H.

01-23-2008 15:41:45




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to JT, 01-23-2008 13:40:46  

Yep, my brother has a D40 and really likes it.

Ken Rockwell (the other site I mentioned below), recommends it over the D80 for most people, but I wanted the 1/4000 shutter speed for fast action.

I've taken pics at the NASCAR races which were very sharp, so it really freezes the action!

Howard



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alan bane

01-23-2008 11:30:05




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
I used to take a few floor shots at the UK games years ago and used a 35 MM Minolta 9000 film camera and shot on 1/250 second and used 3200 speed film without flash, because flash is not allowed ,and always got good clear photos. I'm sure there are some new digital cameras out there that will do the same. I got out of the business and lost interest in photography.



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cj3b_jeep

01-23-2008 11:14:52




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  
yep, I'm a photographer and I agree with everything being said so far. Gym lighting is a strange animal as it can be metal halide, tugnsten, carbide, etc. Each one puts out a diffrent temperature of light on the Kelvin scale. Just like flourescent lights turn things green, these lights all skew color one way or the other. Get a decent SLR digital, like the d80, d200, d300, or Canon rebel digital xti, eos 30d or 40 d, these are pretty much a minimum. What Howard H. is saying is that to get rid of blur, you need to shoot with a fast shutter speed, 1/250th of a second or higher, but a lot of gyms are dark, that's where a fast aperature comes in to make up the difference. Also, a lot of cameras have what is known as "shutter lag time," the time between when you pres the button and the picture is actually taken. More expensive cameras don't have this lag time, less expensive ones do. Good luck, and visit a camera shop, they'll fix you up.

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Howard H.

01-23-2008 10:57:25




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-23-2008 10:40:48  

I'm not a "real" shutterbug, but I bought a Nikon D80 this past summer and really love it. I can't brag on it enough, but it wasn't cheap.

I had a Nikon Coolpix 3100 before that and it was not all that great a camera. My sister has a Canon digital Rebel and it is a great "bang for the buck" camera.


The tradeoff in action photos is a faster shutter speed captures sharper action, but also lets less light in during that time, so depending on the lighting, your lens, camera, etc, quality may go down. Be sure and compare shutter speed settings, etc, between models you are looking at.

If you are looking for a new camera - one main decision is whether to go with a detachable lens SLR type camera. They give you a lot more flexibility in adding items later, but are more expensive.

Google "steves digicams" to read up more on photography - it's a great site with a tremendous amount of info on it.

Howard

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mitch furness

01-23-2008 12:54:03




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to Howard H., 01-23-2008 10:57:25  
Howard I am looking at a Nikon D80 or Canon EOS40D. Did you look at the Canon when considering what to buy? What lense did you get on the Nikon? I thought Canon may be better quality as they are still made i n Japan, Nikon made in Thailand.

Cheers

Mitch



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Howard H.

01-23-2008 15:31:01




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 Re: OT Any photographers out there? in reply to mitch furness, 01-23-2008 12:54:03  
Hi Mitch -

Yes, I looked at some other models fairly hard. The university shutterbug here has several. He had both a Canon and the D70 Nikon - said it was a little like Ford or Chevy - you are down to the short strokes in differences by then.

I don't think the Canon 40 was out when I bought mine in the summer. I noticed that Canon has a super fast 1/8000 shutter speed! That would be cool!

The D80 is a little older by now, but it takes stunning photos.

I got the 18-200 VR lens - here is a review of it by Ken Rockwell (who also has a ton of info on his site - if you can take the strong opinions):

Link

It's a pretty high-dollar lens - but it will take you from closeup insect photos to far off zooms with the flick of the wrist. No switching of lenses that potentially let dirt into the camera body.

Email me at howardh at opsu.edu and I'll send you some full resolution pics that show off the real power of the lens. It's amazing. I'd post them on a photo website, but I don't know of one that will come close to allowing the full resolution that this will capture... Photobucket, for example, limits you to 1024x768.

Even with my PC monitor set to 1920x1200, a 1:1 viewing shows less than half the picture.


Howard

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