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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs

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dave2

01-16-2008 04:38:58




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Hey folks, It's a slow day today and I've been headscratching. I haven't been in the States for around 20 years, so don't know what all the new stuff and attitudes are like. What do you folks do when you have animals that ned doctoring? Any animal, but I'm thinking about horses and livestock mainly and especially those that produce something (meat/milk).
Is natural (holistic??) medicine/healing picking up anywhere (with people also), do you do your own doctoring, or is it call the vet (or cull the animal)? If you call a vet, how long do you end up waiting (does he/she cover several counties, or just a couple of townships)? Guess that answer depends a lot on what part of the country you are in. If you need lab work, are the labs accessable, or a state or more away?


Not trying to sell/promote anything, just curious if it is common or even heard of and how the folks that provide the service and use the service are regarded. I've seen some real good at what they do folks and some real tree huggin' quacks. Just like to see some opinions.

Thanks, Dave

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Jack a

01-17-2008 03:56:53




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
I guarantee you sometime in the maybe too near future there will be laws that will not allow you to buy medicine without being certified (legal bribe). You won't be able to treat your own animals. When this happens do some digging to find out who would lobby for laws like that. Large corporate farms are usually behind such things. Anything to keep out the small independents.



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RayP(MI)

01-16-2008 13:22:38




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
Vets capable of doing farm animals are getting hard to come by these days. Most either want a nice small animal practice, or want to cater to the horsey set. We have rabbits, and had more than one vet call them "eotic pets". By the way, there isn't much in the way of medicines for small, or large exotics.... Not enough money in it to make development worthwhile.

Wonder what response we'll get if'n we call for our Llamas, Angora Goats, or Shetland Sheep.

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Matt from CT

01-16-2008 11:19:33




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
We have several large animal vets in my county, plus Tufts University's Large Animal Clinic (and their Vet School campus about 40 minutes away).

Although I have to believe their bread and butter is pet horses. Know one practice that is equine only.

Largest dairy farmer in the county is married to a large animal vet, so I don't know how that fits in to the question :)



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RodInNS

01-16-2008 10:23:44




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
Most things we deal with ourselves now. Vet does herd health once a month and address what we can then. Simple stuff we treat ourselves in an emergency (pulling calves, milk fevers, etc.) About the only thing we'd get a vet for now is a twisted stomach or a milk fever that doesn't respond quickly but the cow still has a chance. The rest get a high velocity lead implant.
Trying to fix downer cows is an excersie in futility. You dump 5 or 6 hundred into treating a thousand dollar cow for what? Supposing you do save her, most times they don't milk afterwards, are problem breeders and get culled anyway, which will fetch 200 bucks at best... not to mention you spent the time nursing it while you had other things that needed to be done, it hardly paid for it's feed after you saved it, and you still have the vet bill. BT/DT, got the gun.
Buy another one. It's cheaper to replace a cow than treat her... The emphasis need to be on prevention, not treatment.
That probably sounds hard... and it is, but that's about how it works.
For what it's worth, we do have a very good vet practice about 45 minutes away who are quite good to come... but if there's another emergency at the same time, somebody has to wait.

Rod

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phillip d

01-16-2008 16:28:17




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to RodInNS, 01-16-2008 10:23:44  
Hi Rod,by any chance did the vet ever show you how to hit a vein?If not,it will get her up without the vet bill attached.



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RodInNS

01-16-2008 19:29:28




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to phillip d, 01-16-2008 16:28:17  
Yep, can do that too... but we run into one once and a while with a phosphorus or magnesium problem, so we generally get someone in at that point. Calcium problems we generally get by OK on ourselves.
The phos and magnesium problems are 50/50 at best.
We've been fairly fortunate lately (knock on wood)....
It adds up fast now at near a hundred an hour, plus the call fee, plus after hours, plus drugs.
The last culls we sent ranged from 150-230 gross, minus commission and 75 bucks trucking, so there isn't much incentive there to save a cull... The cheap one was a shell; the good ones were D1's and heavy.

Rod

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Tom from Ontario

01-16-2008 09:06:21




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
I'm an organic farm inspector and I see a fair number of the organic folks using homeopathic remedies and treatments.
You MUST catch the symptoms early for the homeopathic products to be effective and they take time to work.
Having said that, you cannot withhold treatment from an animal just to maintain organic status. So if you see something that is a full-blown case of (fill in the blank), the animal MUST be treated with whatever to minimize pain and suffering. Your conventional vet will work with you and the good ones will understand if you are working with homeopathics and try to help you, but do your research first. Don't waste a vet's time and your money be experimenting with a sick animal.
Good luck to all.

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georgeky

01-16-2008 08:21:08




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
I do most of it myself with antibiotics and whatever. Only call the vet when it is something I can't handle, which is seldom. Cut cattle and hogs myself, but do get the vet to cut any horses that need it as they have to be put to sleep to do that. Don't fool with any experimental potions when it comes to a 800 dollar calf.

My vet is usally here within the hour when I call. Not always, but most the time him or one of his apprentices will be.

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phillip d

01-16-2008 07:51:30




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
I look at it as if I were sick myself.I would much rather let the doctor administer a cocktail of meds if it has proven efective in the past and has minimal side effects than have him experiment with vitiman c and if I died,he could make a note"does NOT work" lol.



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rrlund

01-16-2008 06:53:01




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
We have three local vet clinics here. Largest has 6 large animal vets in the field covering several counties. I've had them here in as little as 20 minutes,as long as several hours. The lab at Michigan State University is only about an hour away. Not much experimanting with anything but conventional medicine. You can't afford to play around and loose these things.



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Dave2

01-16-2008 07:10:31




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to rrlund, 01-16-2008 06:53:01  
We raise horses, dogs, and cats with some mutt rabbits for the table. My wife does pretty much everything except anything that requires anistesia. We see the vet for shots and health certificates on sale animals and maintain the rest ourselves. We don't experiment, but it's easy and cheaper to draw blood and send/drive it to a lab that is 15 miles away and let them tell us what the problem is and suggest a treatment. Pregnancy tests are 20 bucks compared to around a hundred for an ultrasound. And less stress for us and the animal. Everything has it's place.

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rrlund

01-16-2008 07:25:28




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to Dave2, 01-16-2008 07:10:31  
Ya,we do most of our own now days. When we were milking cows,the vet was here constantly for one thing or another,but with the beef cattle,we just don't have the need. In fact,they weren't here at all in 2007. 06 was another story,had an ecoli problem that we couldn't get a handle on. We do all of our own vaccinating and castrating. Treat the odd infection now and then with traditional antibiotics when we have to. I have no problem going in when we have calving problems,as long as they come out in one piece and don't have to be cut out.

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phillip d

01-16-2008 05:24:21




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to dave2, 01-16-2008 04:38:58  
When I read your subject,I couldn't help but think you were referring to some removal of anatomy lol.I live in Canada,so I can only speak on behalf of myself living up here.We do as much of our own vetenarian work ourselves as possible.Such as treatment of any source detected infections for the most part.A.I. breeding is done on farm,as are some hoof problem repairs as well.All opperations and pregnency work is performed by the vet of course.We are fortunate to have a vet colledge in our own province,so blood work is usually preformed in a day or two,depending on how early in the week it is sent down,don't send it down on friday and expect it back before monday or tuesday.pd.

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Dave2

01-16-2008 06:58:15




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to phillip d, 01-16-2008 05:24:21  
No, no. I guess the best way to put it is fix the problem instead of treat the symptom. If it hurts your eyes to read, get glasses instead of visine. Or if you have a tension headache, get a massage instead of a tylenol. A bottle of penicillen is worth it's weight in gold, but there is some natural stuff that lets the body push out infection.



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Dave2

01-16-2008 06:58:06




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 Re: Animal doctoring natural vs. drugs in reply to phillip d, 01-16-2008 05:24:21  
No, no. I guess the best way to put it is fix the problem instead of treat the symptom. If it hurts your eyes to read, get glasses instead of visine. Or if you have a tension headache, get a massage instead of a tylenol. A bottle of penicillen is worth it's weight in gold, but there is some natural stuff that lets the body push out infection.



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