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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Solar panel/12V Batt.

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Larry D.

01-12-2008 16:17:09




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Some of You Electronics Gu Rus,I have a Situation to put to You..., I have a 15 Watt 12V Solar panel, and the Question is: Will this Panel (with a DEEP CYCLE Battery) Power a Satellite Dish receiver that draws Approx.25Watt a few hrs a day... AND Keep the battery Charged, This is a Setup I would like to use in the "BUSH" RVing .Thanks Fellas' Larry KF4LKU




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jdemaris

01-13-2008 09:13:30




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Depends a lot on where you live. I'm in a poor sunlight area of New York. My 5400 watt system averages 13,333 watts per day (yearly average).
My equipment is high-tech and low-loss.

Your 15 watt panel is lower quality and your system has more loss. In this area, that panel might provide 25- 35 watts a day. There would be many days it would give zero watts.

The reality is - those cheap small panels rated 15 watts rarely put out more than 10- 12 watts to start with. You then get loss through a cheap controller (if you have one), more loss when storing into a battery, and more loss yet when you invert to AC current.

Now, if you're out in the Arizona desert somewhere, you might do a bit better.

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MarkB_MI

01-12-2008 23:54:41




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Maybe.

You're up against two things: The storage capacity of the battery, combined with the charging capacity of the solar cell.

As I recall, typical deep-discharge batteries have around 70 amp-hours of capacity. But you can probably only use half of that, so figure 35 amp-hours. Also, the inverter is maybe 50 percent efficient, so you're down to around 18 amp-hours, or 200 watt-hours. At 25 watts, that's 8 hours run time. Which means you should be able to run the receiver for 8 hours before the battery is down to where it needs recharging.

Now the 15 watt output of the solar cell is no doubt a bit optimistic. You need 14 volts to charge your battery, and the solar cell is probably rated at 12 volts. Also, there are efficiencies involved in charging a battery. A lot of energy gets wasted in heat. So figure you get maybe 7 watts out of the rated 15. If you have 8 hours of usuable charge time, you get around 60 watt-hours of energy per day. Which is only a little over 2 hours of run time. If you use the receiver more than 2 hours per day, your battery will eventually discharge.

As others have recommended, a bigger solar panel will work a lot better. Even going to 25 or 30 watts will make a big difference. However, if you only use the receiver a few days at a time, you might be able to get away with the 15 watt panel.

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buickanddeere

01-12-2008 18:33:55




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Solar Panel 155 Watt Brand New Mitsubishi PV-MF155EB3
Item number: 160197259812



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Steve in IL

01-12-2008 17:44:57




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Larry - I have a solar system with a 12v battery at my barn. I thing that its a 15w. (Harbor Freight, about $35). However, after reading about batteries, I used a standard car battery (not deep cycle). What I read about deep cycle is that they are designed to be fully charged and un-charged.
I run a few 12v lights (for the few times that I"m in the barn at night), and a radio (cheap boom box, built for 8 D cells: 8*1.5v=12v, so I soldered leads to either end of the battery box, and wired it directly into my 12v battery.
The system seems to work great... I always have power. (but never run it fully down, as deep cycle is intended).
If you need more power, harborfreight.com has several other options (search for "solar").

Good luck!

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dlplost

01-12-2008 17:30:16




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
15 watt solar panel = about 1 amp charger.

15 watt solar panel x 1 hour of sun = 15 watt/hours. 2 hours of sun = 30 watt/hours etc...

25 watt sat reciever x 1 hour = 25 watt/hours.

Add up the totals of each and as long as your putting in more than you take out it will work....Except, as someone else has said the inverter will use more than 25 watts to run your reciever.

So in the equasion you would need to know just how many watts your inverter burns as it is generating the 25 watts for the reciever... It may take more panels to make up the diff..

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Kevin Meier

01-12-2008 17:11:34




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
I had a solar panel on my old travel trailer with 2 deep cell batteries. The charger helped for about a day but that was about it.



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Kestrel in CT

01-12-2008 17:10:03




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Here's an outfit that sells solar products to the RV crowd. Very helpful support staff.

I bought a 30w solar panel from them to keep three boat batteries charged all winter. I have 2 deep cycle 136 amp/h each and a starting battery. The panel keeps them topped off, but of course I haven't any load on 'em this time of year.

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davediehl@hotmail.com

01-12-2008 16:30:27




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
It will not work at all. Deep cycle battery or not. The issue you have is that your inverter to run the dish is going to use about 6 amps of current. Once the voltage drops below 11 volts, the inverters normally power down. To maintain 12 volts, you will need a good size solar panel that has at least 5 amps at minimal sunlight. There are not that many good days for making solar energy.



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RayP(MI)

01-12-2008 16:21:00




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:17:09  
Well, Larry, depends on your usage, available sun light, etc. Around here in the winter the solar panel would be darn near useless! Sure wouldn't want to depend on it. Need more data - far more data. de WB8VWK



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Larry D.

01-12-2008 16:26:51




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to RayP(MI), 01-12-2008 16:21:00  
I will be Rving in Fla.... And usage about 3-4 Hrs Day, Also what Size AMP AC/DC Converter would also be helpful,And with the largest Batt I can get..Thanks, I App Your Advice.



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jdemaris

01-13-2008 15:16:10




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:26:51  
When you say "RVing", are you going to be driving your rig daily? If so, let the RV charge your batteries up when driving.

I don't know what exactly you really want - but . . . if you want a small solar-electric system that's actually useful for something - a bigger panel is a much better buy.

You can buy a 170 watt panel for $3.24 per watt or a 110 watt panel for $3.60 per watt. What did you pay for your 15 watt panel? I bet quite a bit more per watt. One of these larger panels can be hooked to an ASC 12/16 conroller. I mention the ASC because it's the simplest and cheapest on the market for small systems. They sell new for $50, but I bought several used for $15 each and they've been great. I use them mostly for our camper when travelling and also at our cabin in the Adirondack mountains. In regard to the inverter, it all depends on what kind of max loads you want to run. An ex-farmer friend of mine comes up here to NY and camps on his old farm all summer - with no electricity. He borrows my solar equipment, so we've experimented a bit. He started out trying to get buy with two 15 watt panels and they were basically useless. He wanted to power a small TV and DVD player once in awhile, run the water-pump and fan in his RV, etc. Last year I set him up with one 120 watt panel and also let him borrow my 12 volt chest freezer. He ran everything, all summer and it worked great. One 12 volt, 120 watt Kyocera panel, one ASC 12/16 controller, a cheap Harbor Freight 3000 watt inverter ($130) and two golf-cart 6 volt batteries hooked in series. He also used the setup to keep his cell phone charged, and all his cordless power tool batteries. This may seem like more then you had in mind - but it gives you a lot more use for the money spent. About inverters - my 3000 watt Chinese inverter from Harbor Freight cost $130. It's quiet since the cooling fan is thermal operated and rarely comes on. I've used heavy power tools off of it, and also small loads including TVs and DVD players. It has far exceeded my expectations - and it draws less than 1 amp when in stand-by mode - and also comes with a remote control to turn it all the way off if desired. It runs at 95% efficiency - just as good as my high-end inverters that cost thousands.

I also suggest you price some stuff from marine-type dealers in the Florida area - their prices on solar equipment are often better that other types of solar-electric dealers. Sun Electronics in Miami Florida is one of the best I ever dealt with Link Backwoods Solar Electric in Idaho is also a great place if you not near Florida or marine dealers. Link

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Larry D.

01-13-2008 08:32:33




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 Re: Solar panel/12V Batt. in reply to Larry D., 01-12-2008 16:26:51  
I App. You Guys Advice..VERY Helpful. have a Great Day! Larry KF4LKU



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