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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Propane Freeze?

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steve_ne

01-07-2008 06:15:17




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If you read my earlier post, I'm having problems with my lp freezing. I can start it by heating the converter and then spraying a little start fluid. It runs for about 5min then freezes. The temp outside was about 45, so it wasn't very cold. I've taken the converter off and going to have it looked at and cleaned. I see a rebuild kit for 30




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jdemaris

01-07-2008 10:41:29




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
I've had the propane freeze at the regulator many times at my house (not on a tractor). This freezing can occur from a combination of moisture in your propane and a big pressure-drop across a single-stage regulator. Two-stage regulators are less prone to freezing - but again - I'm not talking about tractor setups.

You might want to just add some propane "antifreeze" that is commonly used - it's a type of alcohol that gets injected into your tank of LP.

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dlplost

01-07-2008 09:46:42




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
The Propane you buy is actually a combination of Propane and Butane + other stuff.
Try a diff fuel tank. Some suppliers switch to a higher percent of Butane in the summer months, so if this tank was purchased in the spring it may have enough Butane in it to cause a problem.
As stated by others Propane boils at -42 deg C, however Butane boils at -0.5 degree Celsius = 31.1 degree Fahrenheit.

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Jon Hagen

01-07-2008 08:47:20




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
You have no coolant flow through the vaporizer section of the converter/ regulator. You have a clogged fitting or collapsed hose. Make sure the engine coolant level is full, low coolant will cause no circulation through the vaporizer.

Make sure the water pump is turning normal speed and possible bleed air from the coolant lines if the converter is mounted higher than the head.
any chance it's plumbed wrong? The coolant usually comes from a high pressure area like the head or thermostat housing and returns to a low pressure area like the inlet side of the water pump or lower radiator tank.

You most certainly have no coolant flow to warm the converter to counteract the cooling effect of vaporizing liquid propane. Get the coolant flowing through the vaporizer and the thing will work. My Oliver tractors with the converter/vaporizer mounted above the engine will freeze the converters if I allow the radiator level to get low. Normal operation with warm coolant will have the converter quite warm to the touch.

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Mathias NY

01-07-2008 08:46:25




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
Kind of a long shot idea... Are there any coolant lines running to the converter? On a number of vehicles I have seen this done to prevent the incoming air from getting too cold. If you have the lines, but they are not getting fluid, that may cause some icing.

Could there be moisture in this particular tank of LP? Do you have another tank you could swap it out with troubleshooting purposes?



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Jon Hagen

01-07-2008 16:20:49




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to Mathias NY, 01-07-2008 08:46:25  
The engine propane systems convert liquid propane to propane vapor. The converter /vaporizer/ two stage regulator needs a continuous flow of hot coolant through the vaporizer section to keep the refrigerant effect of liquid propane converting itself to propane vapor from cooling the converter assy so cold that little propane vapor is generated. Liquid propane boils at 40 below 0 and will freeze the converter down to nearly that temp without a steady flow of hot coolant through the vaporizer section. Like I posted before your discribed problem is classic of a converter not getting any coolant flow. Usually a clogged fitting in engine or converter,collapsed/kinked hose, or coolant so low that the water pump will not push it to the converter.

I work onpropane motor fuel systems most every day, over 30 years experience. This is a liquid propane system that converts liquid to vapor, the problem is NOT moisture in the fuel which can effect a vapor only system like what heats your house.

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Mathias NY

01-07-2008 18:20:00




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to Jon Hagen, 01-07-2008 16:20:49  
I guess I should have been more clear in my last post. I am not a mechanic by trade, nor do I have experience working extensively with propane powered equipment. Too often posts like these are left without useful answers. My suggestions were intended to help someone, who is also not an expert, diagnose a problem by suggesting things they may not have considered. My experience has taught me that if the solution were obvious, the question would probably not have been asked. I appologize if I have offended you.

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Jon Hagen

01-07-2008 20:42:00




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to Mathias NY, 01-07-2008 18:20:00  
No offense taken, just a little frustration that money and time may be wasted on solutions that do not Apply to a liquid propane motor fuel system. The owner is talking spending money on a "kit" and an overhaul of the converter, while he states that it runs fine for about 5 min if he heats the converter. That tells me that nothing is wrong with it except no warm coolant is getting to the vaporizer portion of the converter which is what is supposed to heat it constantly. spending $100 plus on a converter kit and overhaul is a total waste of time and money.

What happens is when a liquid propane converter "freezes up" is not that internal passages are being blocked by ice in contaminated fuel, but simply that without hot coolant to constantly replace the heat absorbed when propane changes phase from a liquid to a vapor inside the converter, the entire converter cools to the point that little propane vapor is created and the engine stalls from lack of propane vapor fuel. The freeze up name comes from the fact that a "frozen up" converter is cooled to a temperature well below 0 by the liquid to vapor conversion of the propane and any moisture in the air quickly forms a thich coating of frost on the outside of the converter. All he needs to do is fix that no coolant to the vaporizer problem.
There, I feel better now puff puff puff. :-)

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the Unforgiven

01-07-2008 08:15:34




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
Propane boils at about -40, it is not freezing. Are you seeing frost building up on the outside of the converter?



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steve_ne

01-07-2008 13:19:09




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to the Unforgiven, 01-07-2008 08:15:34  
yes, Then I use a blower to thaw it out. The button on the front is stiff until I warm it up.



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the Unforgiven

01-07-2008 16:36:27




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 13:19:09  
I think you have a problem with the high pressure side of the converter, it is letting liquid fuel in to vaporize somewhere it should already be vapor. My GUESS is the high pressure valve is not holding, maybe a damaged diaphragm.



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msb

01-07-2008 06:22:58




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-07-2008 06:15:17  
Just a guess: Should be a hole in the regulator with a small screen in it.Usually on the bottom.Remove the screen and use a small nail or ?? to see if the hole is open. Sometimes small insects will pack the hole full of mud. Replace the screen when done.



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sd pete

01-07-2008 07:43:02




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to msb, 01-07-2008 06:22:58  
I have seen those installed upside down also.



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