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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

ULSD Fuels

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JT

12-14-2007 17:48:15




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I got a catalog from Amsoil a few days ago and they have a "new" Diesel Cold Flow Improver. I know you need to treat diesel fuel when it gets cold, but they had a comment in about the types of fuel it can be used in, and the last they had listed as "hard to treat ULSD fuels" Does anyone have any known facts on this? Is the ULSD fuel harder to stabilize in cold weather? has anyone heard this could be a problem with ULSD or is this more sales propaganda?

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guido

12-20-2007 11:49:16




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
Hey Jt
ULSD paraffinic content has a naturally higher cloud point then LSD, that is the temperature when wax cristals start to form, that means it will jell at a warmer temperature. You need to treat you fuel according to your climate. It also has 1 to 3 % less energy than the older fuel, so less m.p.g./hrs.from each gallon of fuel.
Guido.



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trucker40

12-15-2007 12:52:54




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
After all that rant,I looked for some additives,I forgot to mention that Power Service makes other additives so read on the side of the bottle,you want the anti gell stuff.After that you mix it to the right tempature,the colder the more you pour in.In the quick look that I took there was a bunch of different additives shown,none that gave you any information that you need.My guess is to mix it the same as low sulphur number 2.Its only filtered more Sulphur out of it if its ULSD which is ultra low sulphur diesel.If its real cold where you are,and you even have ULSD put some in a clear container and see if it gells.My guess is it will probly gell at 5 above,maybe colder.Get some anti gell,put some in and see if it ungells.It would beat reading through all that propaganda and having a tractor or truck with a gelled up tank. Besides Power Service there is Lucas,Meaner Cleaner,FTTP,a bunch of anti gell stuff.Just dont buy cetane improver and expect it to ungell your diesel. You cant trust the places you get fuel at to even have what their sign says anymore.Also its doubtfull if you ask the help there about all they can tell you is its diesel,and it comes on a big tanker truck.You might get lucky and talk to one that acts like they know what they are talking about,and you wont get the mileage out of it if you ask him how to mix it. You cant even trust them if it says blended fuel.It might be a 10-15 year old recipe,and they only blend it that way to sell more of it.They could have stuff sitting on the shelf that they are selling that would cost them less to mix in their blend,and give you better mileage,and still mix it the old way because they dont care. They arent there to help you any more,they just want to take your money.

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JT

12-15-2007 15:23:34




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to trucker40, 12-15-2007 12:52:54  
Well, I do not drive a big truck any more, I drive a F250 with a PSD. he local Loves truck stop is selling B11 Bio, the label says ULSD, (15ppm) For years I have used Power Serve or Howe's brand additive and no gell ups. I got broke about 20 years ago, picked up a rental truck to pick up a load of parts in Alton, Il, headed south on I55, it was cooolllldd!, Jumped off at Rte 16 east,a 2 lane highway, got about 6 miles west, engine started pulling down and died. would try to start, then die. Called tow truck, hauled back in to local repair place, was gelled up. Was told had blended fuel in before I pulled out. So, needless to say, I add additives to my fuel at every fill up. just got this from Amsoil and it mentioned "hard to treat ULSD fuel" and I knew I would at least get some good input here, I am not in the mood to have to un gell my truck, I think winter finally got here in centrall IL. thanks to all
Jim

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trucker40

12-15-2007 12:52:54




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
After all that rant,I looked for some additives,I forgot to mention that Power Service makes other additives so read on the side of the bottle,you want the anti gell stuff.After that you mix it to the right tempature,the colder the more you pour in.In the quick look that I took there was a bunch of different additives shown,none that gave you any information that you need.My guess is to mix it the same as low sulphur number 2.Its only filtered more Sulphur out of it if its ULSD which is ultra low sulphur diesel.If its real cold where you are,and you even have ULSD put some in a clear container and see if it gells.My guess is it will probly gell at 5 above,maybe colder.Get some anti gell,put some in and see if it ungells.It would beat reading through all that propaganda and having a tractor or truck with a gelled up tank. Besides Power Service there is Lucas,Meaner Cleaner,FTTP,a bunch of anti gell stuff.Just dont buy cetane improver and expect it to ungell your diesel. You cant trust the places you get fuel at to even have what their sign says anymore.Also its doubtfull if you ask the help there about all they can tell you is its diesel,and it comes on a big tanker truck.You might get lucky and talk to one that acts like they know what they are talking about,and you wont get the mileage out of it if you ask him how to mix it. You cant even trust them if it says blended fuel.It might be a 10-15 year old recipe,and they only blend it that way to sell more of it.They could have stuff sitting on the shelf that they are selling that would cost them less to mix in their blend,and give you better mileage,and still mix it the old way because they dont care. They arent there to help you any more,they just want to take your money.

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trucker40

12-15-2007 12:16:02




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
Lots of trucks have fuel heaters on them,you run good till you stop,then if you shut the motor off,say sleep in a motel,it gets real cold,you get your truck started but it wont go past idle,I did that before.Power Service was the only thing that would ungell gelled fuel.If its not gelled yet,lots of additives will help keep it from gelling. Way up north they sell it blended at the pump,you dont get the mileage out of it that you do out of number 2 diesel.Havent been out on the road in a year so I dont know about this new clear.I think if I was going from the south to the north,and knew it was zero up there I would buy some additive and pour in it before I got in the cold and it gelled on me. A few times in the past 10 years I have been coming from the south and fuel started gelling on me driving down the road.Was allways lucky enough to dig around in my side box and find some additive. One of my trucks had a fuel heater,never had any trouble while I was driving it down the road.It would get warm enough that steam would come off of it in freezing rain.I would leave it runnig while fueling if it was real cold,you could put your hand on the end of the tank and warm it up while fueling. I live in Missouri,and you see blended fuel at the pumps.You are better off using number 2 and putting additive in it,some of the additive gives you better mileage than regular number 2.I used to go to Iowa all the time and they had pumps that had number 1 fuel,or kerosene,years ago.Thats before these new additives.You could blend it yourself,say 40/60,and run in 20 below or colder,but it cut mileage way down in the trucks I drove.Even with fuel at 1.20 per gallon it would get expensive at 3 miles to the gallon. Then in the last 10-12 years or so they came out with these additives.I wish I could remember what the name of them was that helped mileage.Power Service was even back in the 80s the only thing that would ungell gelled fuel.There might be other stuff now,not real sure,but power service is a lot better than calling a wrecker.It hurts the mileage,but it keeps you going.Sometimes Power Service wont even work if its real froze up.Your tanks might gell,then put in Power Service and thaw out the tanks,but lines still be froze.Not much choice then,need to warm it up in a shop. Since low sulphur diesel,that helped some on gelling up.If its real cold outside,and the winds blowing,snow on the road,it will gell,Ive had it happen.The new clear may be better yet,but if its diesel it will gell at some tempature. Best thing to do is ask the guys that run up north like Canada what they put in the fuel or if its blended or whatever.I think I saw them pouring Power Service in when I was watching Ice Road Truckers this summer.

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Bob

12-14-2007 22:04:21




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
Amsoil sales propaganda.... SURELY you jest!



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MN Scott

12-14-2007 20:14:47




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to JT, 12-14-2007 17:48:15  
You do not need to treat diesel fuel in cold weather! You just need the properly blended fuel for your expected temputure. I have never used a fuel conditioner in any of my diesel trucks or tractors and never have had a cold weather fuel related problem. The only thing you need a treatment for is if you have alge in your fuel then you use a biocide. Fuel additives are just a scam for the most part, just make already high fuel bills higher in my opinion. If you feel you must use an additive put in some biodiesel, that'll lube and clean things up in a hurry, and plug your filters to!

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ktheo1

12-15-2007 10:43:14




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to MN Scott, 12-14-2007 20:14:47  
Where do you live ,Florida? You haven't lived till it's 5% and your truck will start but will only go 15MPH with jelled fuel and you have a load and are 400mi. from home .



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MN Scott

12-15-2007 13:08:07




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to ktheo1, 12-15-2007 10:43:14  
Live in SE MN. 50/50 no1 and no2 will take you to -30, any lower straight no1. Dad brought a bottle of power service home once. It was -15 and I thought I would dump it in the loader tractor. Stuff would not even pour from the bottle! Now it you are a DA and try to run No.2 below 10 your gonna gell and no additive is going to help. Its all common sence and running the properly blended fuel.

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Jon Hagen

12-15-2007 15:09:09




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to MN Scott, 12-15-2007 13:08:07  
MN Scott, blending fuel is a little tough to do this year where #1 fuel is not avalible at any price. For the moment we must make do with products like power fuels anti gel mixed with #2 ULSD which does help a lot. Almost a hundred bucks for anti gel when I fill my 2000 gallon tank, plus nearly another $100 for biocide to keep bacteria and algae from growing in the ULSD. Kind of a PITA, but big oil has found that less product selling at a higher price is to their advantage.

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MN Scott

12-15-2007 16:46:50




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 Re: ULSD Fuels in reply to Jon Hagen, 12-15-2007 15:09:09  
My supplier has no.1. Its about $.15 higher a gallon tho. I've heard of other no.1 shortages in certain regions so if you can't get it you have to make do with the additives and hope for warm weather I guess. Our great EPA mandated the switch to ULSD not big oil so blame your local lefty congressmen.



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