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E-85 fuel

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August Preheim

11-23-2007 16:49:55

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Recently bought a chevy tahoe that takes E-85. E-85 versus E-10 gives me a 15 decrease in mileage which I was aware would happen. My son runs a Ford Taurus E-85 compatible with the same results.Still we find it to be more efficient running the E-85 because of price difference at the pump. Now the question . My mechanic friends tell me that they have discovered by adding one gallon of diesel fuel to 20 gallons of E-85 will bring mileage back up to equal the E-10. Has any one out there heard of this?

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rrlund

11-24-2007 11:52:04

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

I just know that some of the dirt track guys around here run E85 with a little 2 cycle oil.

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Pooh Bear

11-23-2007 21:50:06

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

I pulled these numbers from various sites on the web:

Gasoline 111500 BTU/gallon

E85 = 81000 BTU/gallon

diesel = 138690 BTU/gallon

Link

Link

And you want to see the result of adding diesel to E85 in a 1:20 ratio.

20*81000+138690 = 1758690

175690/21 = 83747 BTU/gallon

83747/81000 = a 3.4% increase in energy content.

But changing from gas to E85:

111500/81000 = a 37.65% decrease in energy content.

So you are still gonna be a tad over 34% in the hole.

Pooh Bear (aka Fluff For Brains)

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n8terry

11-24-2007 08:10:39

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to Pooh Bear, 11-23-2007 21:50:06

I find your comments interesting.

Have you given any thought to the benifits of running e85 in a higher compression engine? From what I have read, if you had an engine with say 12 to 1 compression, you would increase your mileage around 25%.

I don't fully understand the higher octane but lower BTU's.

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K in Iowa

11-24-2007 12:36:12

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E85 octane and energy in reply to n8terry, 11-24-2007 08:10:39

This is certainly possible. Here's why. Alcohol has less energy per gallon that gasoline or diesel.(As pointed out above) BUT an internal combustion engine is very inefficient. That is, it converts fuel to things other than propelling the vehicle down the road...like lots of heat, etc.

So, the question then is how to make the engine more efficient. One way is to increase the compressiion ratio. But when you do that with 87 octane gasoline, it can "ping". Pinging is the fuel igniting before the spark plug sparks due to the heat of compression...sometimes called pre-ignition, or detonation.

Enter E85...lower energy, BUT higher octane...about 105 I think. Octane is the ability of a fuel to resist pre-ignition.

Therefore, an engine designed to function on 87 octane gasoline will not be using all of the good characteristics of E85, but an engine designed to use the higer octane E85 will result in higher efficiency, and therefore better fuel economy.

Kirk

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buickanddeere

11-25-2007 11:53:08

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Re: E85 octane and energy in reply to K in Iowa, 11-24-2007 12:36:12

The higher compression ratio gains on the powerstroke where the expansion ration is also greater. All other factors equal a high compression engine vs. low compression. Has lower combustion chamber pressure and low combustion chamber temps because more of the energy was converted to crankshaft power. I would be possible to get more mpg with a well tuned high compression 12 to 1 engine on E85 vs. an all fuel dog with 4 to 1 compression burning 87 octane. Cam timing and rpms can skew the results wildly. All octane means is the air/fuel mixture can be raised to a higher heat before self ignited combustion. Take a look on a chemical chart for the ignition temp of pump gas vs. aviation fuel vs.toluene vs. the alcohol group.

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n8terry

11-23-2007 18:40:43

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

I have heard of folks adding diesel fuel to unleaded for lubrication after leaded fuel was done away with.

Now to answer you question, it would seem to me that adding a gallon of diesel to 15 gallons of gas would be a bit too much. I would start out with a quart to 10 gallons and go from there. Let us know what you find out.

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Bus Driver

11-24-2007 05:54:32

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to n8terry, 11-23-2007 18:40:43

Unleaded gasoline has always been sold for use as engine fuel. The reported problems with unleaded are just imagined. Cars also have problems during full moons, for example.

Amoco history

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RustyFarmall

11-23-2007 17:59:09

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

Don't forget to factor in the cost of that one gallon of diesel.

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Joe in MN.

11-23-2007 17:01:04

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

Just use Common Sense --- Use the Diesel Fuel and then Test it by checking the Mileage per tank --- how hard was that ????

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August Preheim

11-23-2007 16:50:58

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Re: E-85 fuel in reply to August Preheim, 11-23-2007 16:49:55

Should have said 15% decrease in mileage.

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