GAS/DIESEL prices

If I were ever to run this country I would have a simple fix to the high cost of a barrel of oil. "We feed most of the people on this earth. Including the Arabs. Offer to trade them 2 bushels of corn for a barrel of oil or let them eat sand, then sit back and see how long it would take for the price of oil to drop".

Also, at present, a dollar gets much more when spent on efficiency - than when spent on alternative fuel sources. I don't see much of that being done.

Moaning about the government to fix things - while we do little ourselves on an individual level is just plain stupid.

My home and shop are on a 5400 watt solar-electric grid-tie system that would cost - today - around $55,000. If I didn't do it grid-tie, I'd lose much of the power I make - since there's no way to save it. A battery bank holds a fixed amount of KWHs, and no more. With state and federal incentives, it cost me a little under $20,000. I see it as a long-term, lifetime investment. We make on average twice the electric power every month then we use.

Also have a cabin in the Adirondack mountains that is off-grid 1200 watt solar-electric. Cabin also has solar-passive heat along with wood, and a gravity-feed water system.

At home we heat our hot water, house and barn with all wood in the winter - and hot water is solar heated in summer. All our lights are cheap CFLs.

Wind where I live does not justify the expense. It's usually a waste of money unless you live in a good wind area - and have good way to save excess power made during high wind times. Holland is having a problem with wind-electric storage right now and they are working on a new technology to store excess electricity. Maybe somebody ought to invent a variable-capacity battery system.

My point here is - I've spent years trying to do something on my own. At the same time, there are town meetings ad nauseum about letting big wind power companies - government subsidized - to come in and screw up the landscape - all of which will not result in any savings or long-term gains for people that live around it. And, we get taxed, more and more, to fund the start-up incentive programs. The Adirondack Park makes more electricity by hydro than all the residents use there - yet they are no better off than anyone outside the park - since all the power goes into a common grid.

And, if you really do your best - you can then sit back and watch your taxes go up - to "help" people that do nothing for themselves.

I will also add, I haven't found a good way around fuel prices yet. Biofuel, for the most part is BS and hype. If we had land and a climate for sugar cane, maybe. One answer is - to drive less and/or something as fuel efficient as possible? My wife's 91 diesel Volkswagen gets a best of 50 MPG, and an all-around average of 36 MPG. I don't think you can buy anything new that comes close - and much of the hybrid claims are also BS. Maybe another idea - would be to drive a Stanley Steamer and use wood? Hey, if we all tried it, we'd get arrested for fuel-tax evasion.

Last I read - a modern diesel-electric locomotive carries a indiviual with a calculated fuel mileage of 5000 miles to the gallon. Maybe that ought to tell us it's time to go back to a system that provides commuter trains again in rural areas? Or, maybe back to your suggestion of horses.

In England, there are all kinds of fuel efficient turbo-diesel cars and trucks that are not allowed in the U.S. - and many are made by Ford and GM.

I don't like the prices now - but . . . this country wastes tremendous amounts of energy with no apparent long-term goal for an alternative.
We've been paying artificially low prices for years - and now they are coming closer to true reality. Problem is - why? If $4 per gallon was only due to supply and demand - I wouldn't feel so bad. But . . . if it's a artificial hike making a few people rich - than it does tick me off.

If frivolous air travel was cut back, and our country's infrastructure was once again designed around rail and water shipping - instead of diesel tractor-trailers using inland roads - we've save a huge amount of fuel. Our entire economy is based around waste. I recently bought some framing lumber - and it came from Russia - yet I live in a heavily forested area in New York. Our local dairy farms ship their milk to New York City - 200 miles away. When I buy milk down at the local store - it usually comes from Massachusetts.

In the 1960s, entry-level jobs were often $1.50 per hour and I was making $4 per hour at my job, gas was 25 - 32 cents per gallon, and a new small car - like a Volkswagen or Renault cost less than $1000 brand new. I often had a harder time affording gas then at those prices, then now.

Today - it seems many entry level jobs are more than $10 per hour, skilled jobs much more, gas is over $3 per gallon, and new "cheap" cars are $12,000. Note, that the average Detroit auto worker gets paid $78 per hour when benefits are figured in.

Based on that, I don't see where $3 or $4 per gallon is out-of-line - it costs less than a lot of bottled water.

This country - and its citizens - can moan and groan as if we deserve cheaper fuel than the rest of the world as we waste it faster than we can get it - or - we could try to do something about it that is not based on a finite fuel source. Yeah, it's not easy for the individual - and it seems many people just sit back and wait for the government to find and answer. Just keep in mind - all the governemt is - is a bunch of individuals - made into a group - that gets paid regardless of job-performance.

Fuel shortages and price-hikes lead to personal innovation - from individuals and private companies - which sometimes leads to some interesting stuff. We'll see.

Do you suppose the cost of food in the grocery store is artificially low also? Do you really think if we raise the price of food the farmer will see any of the increase?

In regard to food prices - yes they are artificially low. So is oil and they are both tied together. And, let me define "artificial" within this context as not reflecting the true value over the long-haul. A true cost would relfect some sort of sustained production. We do not have that for many reasons - including farm land disappearing, diversity disappearing, and most of ag. production based on petroleum from plowing, planting, fertilizing, herbicides, and getting goods to market.

Most food products, if produced in a way that has the potential to be done, over and over, without using disappearing resources - would require some older and proven techniques that often only work well in small scale farming. Crop rotation, cultivation rather then chemical weed control, multi-cropping, intercropping, etc. It would also be much more land intensive - i.e. more land needed to allow more fallow ground at times.

You ask - do I think increased food prices at market will result in more money for farmers? No, I don't - unless it's a local market with products being sold direct from farm to consumer.
I sell maple syrup that way. My neighbor sells organic beef that way. It's not easy since most of the public would rather buy food at Walmart.
And, back to petroleum fuel - without it, large chains like Walmart would be screwed since most of their warehouses are stocked via diesel fueled tractor-trailers.

In regard to your statements about oil companies. Yes, they set prices based on whatever they can get for their product. That's what corporations do - they exist to make money, not do us favors.
That being said, most banks in this country made more profit gains this year than the large oil comapanies. And, most states and the Fed gov. make much more on fuel than the refiners to - all for doing absolutely nothing.

When I say prices are artificially low for fuel - that is only counting what we pay for it - not based on who is getting what on the receiving end. When I buy a gallon of diesel for $3.60 - maybe $2.00 of that goes to the refinery that actually made the product. Crude oil at present is around $95 per barrel. One year ago, it was $59 per barrel. A refinery can make around 7 1/2 gallons of #2 diesel fuel from a standard 42 gallon of crude. Also 19 gallons of gasoline, around 4 gallons of jet fuel, and a few other assorted products in smaller amounts. So, one $95 barrel - yields around $20 in #2 diesel to the refiner, and around $48 in gasoline. Even figuring in the other by-products from the barrel - it is not exactly highway-robbery. The state taxes we pay on it - are robbery (in my opinion). And, without all the facts and figures - the price of crude is up 61% from one year ago. How much has gasoline gone up in one year? Here, it was around $2.70 - $2.90 and is now $3.30. It should be over $4 right now if actually based on the current price of crude (gas spiked back and forth last year from $2.30 up almost $3 so it's hard to pick a proper figure). Another cost I don't know much about - is that for ultra-low diesel fuel. Historically, it was easier to make #2 diesel than gasoline and cheaper. Now, pump diesel is often 30 cents more than regular gasoline. I'm wondering how much expense has been added for production of the ultra-low diesel. Long term - it's supposed to help preserve the environment - so actual cost over time is hard to figure. For the consumer, the new fuel adds to maintaince costs with mechanical injection systems, added costs to new diesel cars and trucks, and less fuel efficiency overall with new cars and trucks. And, overseas - a person can still buy a small diesel SUV or truck and get better than 40 MPG. So, they run dirtier fuel and engines, but overall use less fuel. Is that better or worse than our system?

Where I'm at eastern CT each day that I travel on I-95 I'd estimate 8 out of 10 passenger vehicles travel down the highway with just the driver. I'd expect a large % of the US is similar. Pretty darn wasteful yet what are we to do? Engineer a better system? Wait for an offshore entity to do it for us? Economic disparity --if commodity values are artificially low -- white collar salaries are artificially high. Its a rat race I tell ya I looked to get out went to the woods its worse there. White collar criminals steal in %'s the others onces just siphon your fuel,steal your tools and anything that can be sold for scrap.

As winter comes to New England I expect the folks spending $400-600 if not more a month to heat their home will scream for a change.

I'm in New York - that used to be part of the original "New England" historically, and it gets colder here - then it did when I lived in the Northeast Kingdom of northern Vermont.

Anybody with half a brain could of, and still can - buy a chain saw, a woodlot, and heat with wood. Or build a high-efficiency house, etc.

I was worried about it when fuel oil was 65 cents a gallon from Agway on "spring special" and that wasn't all that long ago.

I don't condemn anyone who choses to sit back and heat their home with oil, gas, propane, etc. But, nobody can say these price-hikes are unexpected - and I would not be surprised to see heating-oil at $10 a gallon in 10 years. So, if someone has made the choice to do nothing to prepare - then don't complain about the reality of increasing prices (unless it's due to corruption and NOT supply and demand).

I've lived in three, very rural areas in my life - and the same things happens, over and over. The common mindset used to be - if you moved to a rural area it was a compromise. You got to live somewhere nice but made less money and accepted it. Now - few people I meet see it that way. They move to a rural area and instantly try to change it until it becomes like the place they left previously. I'm in central New York - and been here since 1979. When I moved here, I had three kids and took a job at 1/3 the pay that I had been making near New York City some 200 miles away. I drove 15 miles to work to a Deere tractor dealership. Also started my own tractor shop at home. I met others that migrated here and commuted over 150 miles a day to make more money. That never made sense to me - they might has well just stayed where they worked. Had one neighbor that commuted 400 miles a day by small commuter plane to NYC. I figured it was worth making a lot less money to live in a beautiful area to raise my kids - and more-or-less, do what I wanted - in regard to land-use, hunting, trapping, tractor collecting, etc. I also bought a house and land here for $12,000 - and houses from where I left were all over $100,000 at the same time. Now, this place is getting ruined by new people and development and we now have "right to farm" laws. If you had told a farmer here 30 years ago that we might need such laws, they'd figure you were nuts. So - yeah - I'd love to see my property value go from $300,000 down to $75,000 - if I was staying here. Close half the businesses, - heck - close our monster of a school too. I still know a few people that attended one-room schoolhouses in this area - and their level of education is better than many people I meet today. I also know a lot of home-schooled kids, including Amish, and am constantly impressed.