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O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question

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MeAnthony

11-04-2007 18:43:57




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A friend of mine has this furnace, runs off Natural gas now. I was told by another HVAC guy that is an old coal burner(Peninsular 10-22D). He figures it's at least 50 years old. Anyway, my point is, she's having trouble(the pilot light stays on, but the main burner doesn't come on) and doesn't have the money to replace it right now. Where can I get some information on these old conversion kits, and how they are supposed to work? This one is a:
Janitrol Gas Conversion Burner
Model - JD05
Serial - 1252A0268
with a Combination Regulator & Diaphragm Gas Valve
Type - V886AY2DRI
on it.

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HVAC guy told me to jumper across terminals R and W in the thermostat to see if thermostat was the problem. This made no difference, so I'm guessing that isn't the problem.

HVAC guy told me to jumper across the two terminals on the hi-temp limit switch; made no difference, so I'm guessing this isn't the problem either.

Unfortunately, this still leaves me where I was before. The signal from the thermostat is being lost somewhere. The wiring diagram is still there, and mostly legible. However, without knowing what steps this thing goes through in the process of turning on, how do I know where to start looking for the cause?

I can get it to come on for 1 cycle, till the thermostat turns it off, but that's usually all it will do. There's a button on the regulator valve/diaphragm that you push to close the contacts on a solenoid(I'm guessing this contraption is similar, at least in operation if not design, to a fuel shutoff solenoid?). Doing this will turn on the gas to the main burner, thus giving heat until the thermostat shuts it off.

Basically, I'm trying to make this ancient piece of heating equipment operate safely/properly for one more season. Then she can afford to replace it. Surely someone out there knows something about these?

P.S. Is Janitrol a part of Honeywell?

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond.

Sincerely,


Anthony

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dave guest

11-07-2007 19:35:16




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
Simple system. Pilot generator in flame produces very, very tiny current. Hi temp contacts and all connections have to be super clean. Use pencil eraser only. Sandpaper or file can ruin contacts. Thermostat must be old type. New thermostats mostly will not work. Very special. Tap gas valve as last resort. May get stuck "on" Gas company should help. May have to buy contract. No belts, fans, motors, dampers. I loved them. Get safety check, too. Solder any splices.

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dave guest

11-07-2007 19:34:57




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
Simple system. Pilot generator in flame produces very, very tiny current. Hi temp contacts and all connections have to be super clean. Use pencil eraser only. Sandpaper or file can ruin contacts. Thermostat must be old type. New thermostats mostly will not work. Very special. Tap gas valve as last resort. May get stuck "on" Gas company should help. May have to buy contract. No belts, fans, motors, dampers. I loved them. Get safety check, too. Solder any splices.

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supergrumpy

11-05-2007 17:38:03




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
on some of the units I have worked on, there is a metal thermocouple that sits in the pilot flame, if its in good condition and hot enuf current flows to open the main gas valve when thermostat calls for heat

these can break down to the point that they don't have enuf oomph to open the gas valve, replacing the thermocouple usually fixes it, look for small metal line coming from the gas valve with other end sitting in pilot flame, kinda delicate buggers, sometimes you have to take them out and match them up to find one that fits

on newer units, there is an electric eye that looks for blue flame of main burner but your unit looks lot older than that

natural gas leaks or malfunction can maybe blow a house up, please be careful

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rubberwrench

11-05-2007 12:23:01




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
The pilot light and the main burner use seperate gas shut offs check to be sure both are on. This was a problem I encountered.



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glennster

11-05-2007 06:09:57




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
looking at the photos, it looks like the probe is located on the top left of the furnace bonnet, in the top picture it is partially hidden by the gas line.



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glennster

11-05-2007 06:07:09




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
we had one of them at the old farmhouse, coal burner converted to oil. i"m not a furnace guy, but if i remember ours would do the same thing. basically when the thermostat calls for heat it sends a signal to a temperature probe that is located in the firebox, kind of a square box the size of half a cigar box, there is a bi-metal probe that goes into the fire box. that controls the burner cut in and cut out temmperatures. there may be a reset button on there. pull the box and probe out of the furnace and blow all the soot off of it. there should be a dial on it with two arrows, one for cut in temp, one for cut out. the wires from there go to the solenoid to turn the main gas burner on. should be that big diaphram thing in the photo. that opens the gas valve for the main burners. if that furnace hasnt been cleaned in a while, open the big door afeter you shut the power and gas line off, vacuum that thing out real good. probably full of soot. there should be an air adjustment shudder to regulate air flow to main burner to adjust the flame. should have a good blue flame, if it got a lot of yellow flame, you need to adjust the air a little. you want a blue flame with just a little yellow on the tips. could also be the solenoid on the main gas valve is sticking too.

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Bus Driver

11-05-2007 03:32:23




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
While my remarks do not directly address the question, let it be noted that boilers using coal burners have huge passages in the heat exchanger and boilers using gas have small, tight passages. The heat exchanger designs are at the opposite ends of that spectrum. Using natural gas, the overall efficiency of that boiler probably is about 40%. The fuel bills must be terrible.



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evielboweviel

11-05-2007 02:30:11




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
try blowing all the dust off and one by one removing wires, cleaning wires and terminals and then replacing them. that is a millivolt system and a bad connection can and will cause problems
Ron



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buickanddeere

11-05-2007 01:52:48




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
With the price of natural gas converting back to a coal stoker is looking better and better. Some of the coal stokers can also handle grain or wood pellets. Hammand or Alaska are two of several company names.



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noncompos

11-04-2007 22:49:40




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
This may be a little more helpful: furnacecompare.com says Janitrol was taken over by Goodman Mfg Co in 1982, that Goodman marketed the Janitrol line (one of the old names in HVAC) under Janitrol for awhile but later dropped the name, marketing the line under the Goodman name. Try goodmanmfg.com; they may have manuals or tech help available.
Googling (adv search) "Janitrol Gas Conversion Burner" brought up four hits, the first of which (artic.edu. etc etc)(sorry, don't know how to link) in it's thumbnail refers to diagrams etc on pdf, but don't know if it includes what you need. Good luck.

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noncompos

11-04-2007 21:44:07




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to MeAnthony, 11-04-2007 18:43:57  
Where is this thing located that there"re no local techs who can fix it??
That"s a typical "octopus" coal burner, just thermal; there"s a gillion been converted to oil or gas by sticking a unit in the old cleanout door, and they were damm good heaters: a litle slow at first (the fire heated firebrick inside) but when the firebrick warmed, and the thermostat kicked off, it would "coast" (the firebrick cooled slowly in the air draft, putting warm air into the house for some time before kicking the fire on again). If no one local can work on them, and no advice turns up, how about checking for another gas unit, at least if there"s a fair sized city close.
AND--AND--that white stuff is asbestos; the layers on the hot air pipes get old and brittle, and bumping it releases dust-part just dirt and part microscopic asbestos fibers, so try to avoid unnecessary bumping and thumping. Good luck.

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MeAnthony

11-05-2007 04:22:31




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 Re: O/T: Coal burner to Natural Gas Conversion question in reply to noncompos, 11-04-2007 21:44:07  
It's located in Vandercook, MI, and the problem isn't that there aren't any local techs. Things are rather tight for her right now, and I was the only one who fell into her price range. Being that she's a family friend, you know what that means! lol

By brother-in-law is an HVAC guy, he's been helping me over the phone(he lives 2 hours away), but he hasn't seen one of these before.

Thanks for posting, and y'all have a great day!

Anthony

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