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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O.T. Property Line Disputes

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NEsota

07-20-2007 17:39:04




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I have noted that when disputes are discussed here, there is a lot of interest. Here is a Iowa S.C. decision that may cause a lay person's head to spin but may encourage us to cover all the bases to avoid these problems.




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KEH

07-20-2007 19:01:52




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  

I'm not clear how anyone is supposed to be able to drain only their part of the lake. I have difficulty seeing how they could do the Dutch dike routine and keep water from seeping in from the adjoining water. I also wonder why anyone would want to go to the trouble to do that. I'm sure I wouldn't want the trackhoe bill for doing that.

KEH



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paul

07-20-2007 18:55:18




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
Read the last paragraph of that web site. It is from the disenting judge.

Kinda scary.


I"m not sure how one fences or drains a portion of a man-made lake without affecting the others, but seems like they got things figured out about right to me.

--->Paul



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Matt from CT

07-20-2007 18:46:56




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
Unfortunatley, I have the Cliff Claven gene that compells me to read such things ;)

I particularly like the explanation that the common law rule comes from civil law system, and the civil law rule comes from a common law system.

At any rate, I concur with the Iowa Supreme Court -- they were correct in interpreting that under the existing Common Law rule the body of water was not navigable, and thus property ownership extends heaven to hell.

I don't agree with the result -- that a person who owns lake bed can decide to fence off that part of the lake or drain the lake to access their lake bed.

But it's not upto the Courts to change the prevailing legal precedent.

It is, rather, well within the powers of the Iowa state legislature if they so chose to adopt a Civil Law (god, head is spinning) model that says even in a lake with no commercial use, if it can float a boat you can use it for navigation & recreation. Maybe with a modification of minimum acreages and prohibition with 100' of shoreline were posted or something like that, and that only adjoining property owners have such rights.

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John T Country Lawyer

07-20-2007 18:28:29




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
Thanks for the post, Im ACTUALLY GONNA READ THAT LATER. It reminds me of first year law school when alllll ll we did was read cases out the ying yang lol. I have a small semi retired county law pratice and always enjoyed property law as its the oldest law out there since owning and conveying interests in real property goes back to the feudal period and only later did the upstart contract lawyers come about to deal with contract rights in real and personal property. Being so old its pretty well settled is one other thing I like about property law.

John T Nordhoff, Retired Electrical Engineer and Attorney at Law in Indiana

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Katharine

07-20-2007 18:27:03




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
For crying out loud, I read that entire ruling. All bloody 19 pages. The only person I can see who had any sense was the final dissenting judge, who also had the final word, but without unfortunately, much merit to the offended party in the suit. The whole idea of being able to build a berm or wall in your portion of the lake and then be able to drain it, is to say the least majorly absurd - magnified times ten. Utterly and totaly ridiculous to tell the plaintiffs and defendants that basically the best the court could come up with, was to allow each party to fence, berm and drain their protion of the lake if they so desired. It should have been made common ground between the parties, period. For, what if one of the parties decides to take up kite flying or micro-lite flying, according to the courts ruling and interpretation of the law regarding the property rights extending "...from heaven to hell..." then they could sue them for flying into their private air-space!

Give me a break! Someone needs to have their heads examined and those idotic judges should be voted off the bench next term.

Just my opinion, and GLAD I am not a party to that mess!

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KEH

07-20-2007 18:20:03




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  

Interesting. Thanks for posting. Just goes to show that a person should have clearly marked , surveyed, and clearly understood property lines.

KEH



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John T Country Lawyer

07-20-2007 18:17:44




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
Thanks for the post, Im ACTUALLY GONNA READ THAT LATER. It reminds me of first year law school when alllll ll we did was read cases out the ying yang lol. I have a small semi retired county law pratice and always enjoyed property law as its the oldest law out there since owning and conveying interests in real property goes back to the feudal period and only later did the upstart contract lawyers come about to deal with contract rights in real and personal property. Being so old its pretty well settled is one other thing I like about property law.

John T Nordhoff, Retired Electrical Engineer and Attorney at Law in Indiana

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JoeBob/IN

07-20-2007 18:11:34




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to NEsota, 07-20-2007 17:39:04  
I didn't read the whole thing but here is what I beleive to be true. If you can access any water from your own property you have full access to all the water until you place foot on soil owened by another. We have some lake frontage and on the other side of the lake there is another land owner and if there is water in the channel there is yet a third land owner who owns ALL around a small pond yet we have access to all the water including that pond... luckily we all get along except one fella. He owns land directly East of us at the halfway point of the length of the lake but supposedly his property is 2 foot shy of the lakes edge! He and the fella across the lake are gonna end up shooting each other since the fella east of us built a pier and allows a lot of other people to access the lake. Those two had a legal battle previously, fella east of us kinda went in and planted ground that his contract had expired on... lot more to that story and I am not sure on the exact details and someone else here may know the story so I will not continue and spread false info.
Anyways, not sure if you could build a fence on the property underneath the water but I suppose you could and that would keep others off your "part" of the lake. Not so sure you could drain it either, at least here in IN I would think the DNR would have a fit!

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Matt from CT

07-20-2007 18:56:44




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 Re: O.T. Property Line Disputes in reply to JoeBob/IN, 07-20-2007 18:11:34  
>you could drain it either, at least >here in IN I would think the DNR would have a >fit!

Lots of time the law has those internal conflicts. Chuckled when I read it in the paper when a town near me appointed some new police officers, but the Chief was dead on what he said when they got their badges:

"Congratulations, you're now police officers with police powers. You just don't have permission to act as a police officer or use your new powers."

In CT you need an appointment to enter the municipal & State police academies. You have police powers under State statutes when you appointed. But under a different statute, you don't have permission to use those powers until you complete something like 600 hours in the classroom and 120 hours of ride-along to become "certified."

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