Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!!

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
jonny2006

06-22-2007 18:32:54




Report to Moderator

my father-in-law used to work at amaco in Mandan N.D. He told me they had Five "super Bladders" That they had to fill and when they were full..... They would send it up the stack and burn it off! I rember seeing it also in minnesota you would drive by ashland or koke refinery and you would see a huge flame torch in the air burning 24/hours a day after they filled the tanks. Propaine is a by product that is why propaine dosent follow gas and diesel. Back in 1999 i bought propaine for .62 cents a gallon and thought that was high because a few towns over the same brand of propain was selling for .56 cents per gallon but they would not deliver to my aera. so i had to pay the .62 Also he was incharge of getting the water out of the huge holding tanks and he would open a valve at the bottom of each super tank and he would listen as the water hit the ground it made a "splashing" sound and when it change over to oil or distillates it wouls make a distincive sound when the fossile fule hit the ground. then he would close the valve. He for many years ran the mixers and the "cracker towers" as diffent fuels would burn off at diffrent temps. all he had to do was push buttons to move the diffrent fuels and mix the diffrent fuels. He said they had government contracts and a government offical would put a lock on the huge tanks after it passed the purity test. then a MP would gard the tank till it was extracted by the us government. He lost his high pasying job in 1987 when the refinery was prepairing to close down. He was offerd a tranfer to amaco in texas and turned it down. In the us there are less refinerys today then there were 20 years ago! low fuel prices were responsible for the closers accrss the nation. There is one refinery that wants to start up but they are cought up in red tape. just getting the perments takes around 10 years. No one wants a refinery in there "backyard" They are hoping to open by 2014. Also i seen on tv that our food bills will be going up 7 percent on average because of high corn prices due to so much corns going to fuel. The thing i don't understand is they don't need to use corn to make ethanol. you can make ethanol out of just about any material that will ferment like grasses. Take a look at brazil they are compleatly off fossile fuels and burn alcohol. We could learn a few things from that country. It is nice that farmers are gonna get more for there corn and milk and other products but if it sends us into a ression we will all suffer, and farmers always seam to suffer more durning a ression. they should bring back hemp as we could make way more fuel of an acher of that then corn. plus we could make paper out of hemp fiber. It takes ten years of groth from trees to do what a acher of hemp can do in months. I know that the forestry industry plants more tress then they cut down, but it some point demand will out do supply. I belive hemp could be the answer to a few of the tough questions. we might be ok for now doing things they way we have done it for years but with the skyrocketing fuel prices is a sign that the supply is tight. I know what some will say if you got the money you can buy as much as you want. but if every one did it there would be shortages. just remember 9-11 when everyone hit the gas pumps demand was so strong stations ran out of unleaded and super unleaded and some ran out all together. in my town people were filling 55 gallon drums gas cans and rumers of 6.00 gas was running rampid. Trust me the supply is tight in this country and if you don't belive it asked a gas station owner who said on 9-11-01 i called 3 diffrent suppliers and no one can be here for a week. I don't have enough to last 2 days. i rember seeing stations with bags over there gas pumps as they ran out. Prices will not stablize untill we can reduce our demand or increase the supply. Renewable energy is our only long term answer.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Dan in Houston

06-23-2007 09:20:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to jonny2006, 06-22-2007 18:32:54  
Brazil runs on ethanol? Not strictly. Just do a google search and look at the worldwide activities of Petrobras, their state-owned oil company. Petrobras has branched out from Brazil and is looing for oil and gas in other areas of the world - such as our Gulf of Mexico.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

06-23-2007 06:02:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to jonny2006, 06-22-2007 18:32:54  
Gasoline was also once an unwanted byproduct and used to get dumped or burned. Many things that were once "byproducts" are now valuable commodities.

In reference to we people learning something from Brazil? Learn what? How to monocrop? How to clear-cut forests? How to deplete soil? Think that's all been already one, many times, in the U.S. Sugar cane does have a temporary high engergy yield - but so what? What do you think will happen in Brazil when they become more industrialized and deforested and lose more food producing farms? The U.S. climate does not work with cane except for Hawaii - and in certain areas of Florida. In Brazil, they seem to be quite short-sighted as to the long-term effects of deforestation and soil depletion.
Also, here in the U.S. we use (and waste) a lot more energy and we also have to heat an awful lot of businesses and homes. In the U.S., a crop has yet to be found that can be grown every year - forever - and provide a true positive yield - that if you include the long-term effects on soil, types of herbicides, pesticides, fertizers, transportation, refining, loss of food producing farms, etc. There's a lot of hype and BS written about it - much of which because there's money to made due to all the government subsidies.

Much of what is popular in the news in regard to alternative energy is pure nonsense. At present, in the U.S., for any dollar spent on alternative energy - we'd get back twice the yield if the same money was spent on being more efficient. I see few people doing it on a personal level - yet many seem to think government will do for them. Yet, our government is made up of - just people.

It seems that in most discussions that relate to energy - certain key ingredients are left out - e.g. the never ending population growth and the constant increase in total energy use. From a logical viewpoint - there are several approaches - use less - or - produce more. Seems the popular remedy is to NOT cut back on any use, and just assume we can make more - from less.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

06-22-2007 21:03:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to jonny2006, 06-22-2007 18:32:54  
No problem. Coal liquefaction and the Alberta Tar sands can run the North American economy as is for another century +. There isn't enough crop land to grow the fuel required. There is a type of brackish water tolerant algae that is oily by nature. If there was a strong incentive this goo could supply most of the petroleum market. In New Brunswick the Irving Oil refinery has doubled capacity in the past decade making it the largest single refinery in the world. In another 2-3 years capacity will double again. Who do you think supplies most of the north eastern Canada & the north East US? The sky is falling, the sky is falling..... ...New nuclear plants can supply the power for short range commuter cars to charge at night. And nuclear can supply hydrogen to assist reforming heavy crude and coal into liquid fuel. Nuclear can supply steam to extract the tar sands fuel without having to burn a significant portion of production to supply process demands. As for the environmentalists. They need to be run out of their city condos and set in the forest with a boy scouts manual, some flint & steel and a knife. Or forced to spend a year with a strict order of Amish people. As for LP, butane etc being a byproduct. Not any more. With the price of crude now just about any type of "surplus" byproduct is reformed into gasoline or diesel.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JTinNJ

06-22-2007 19:42:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to jonny2006, 06-22-2007 18:32:54  
I agree that renewable fuels are the way to go.We have come along way in the last couple of years with ethanol and biodiesel.Much more needs to be done.As here in New Jersey there is not a single E-85 pump in the entire state.We need to be building Ethanol stations not gas stations.Keep Ethanol away from the oil companys.After all they are in busesness to sell oil not ethanol.This is one reason why the oil companys are not investing in refinery exspantion. They can see the rise of ethanol. Food prices going up because of the price of corn is from scare mongers,playing on peoples fears.There is plenty of corn. If supply gets tight all we need to do is stop exporting corn.But,there is to much money to be made in exporting corn.So,thats not going to happen anytime soon.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dan hill

06-23-2007 04:04:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to JTinNJ, 06-22-2007 19:42:50  
Poultry feed has gone from 6.50 to 10.90 per 50 lb in 4 years.The cost of feeding poultry has increased 40%.Take a good look at grocery prices.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MN Scott

06-22-2007 21:09:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to JTinNJ, 06-22-2007 19:42:50  
Trouble with grain ethanol is it takes almost as much energy to make it as it provides. Now if we could develop celluose ethanol producton it would be a viable fuel as it produces much more energy that it takes to produce it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JTinNJ

06-23-2007 16:35:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to MN Scott, 06-22-2007 21:09:16  
The amount of coal need to make electricity is 3 to 1 also,but,you don't hear anyone saying turn off the lights. It's all in how it is persented.Debbie Fretz is the CEO of Sunoco Logistics. She says ethanol will never make as an alt-fuel.Well of course not. She works for an oil pipeline.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
djm75

06-23-2007 04:27:47




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to MN Scott, 06-22-2007 21:09:16  
That is correct for every 1 part energy input you get 1.6 out of ethanol but biodiesel is the answer for every 1 part input you get 4.6 parts out of it. I wish US car makers would start making more diesels jeep had the right idea with the cummins options.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
flying belgian

06-22-2007 19:06:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to jonny2006, 06-22-2007 18:32:54  
Last week I called to have my fuel tanks filled on the farm. 900 gallons diesel and 700 gallons gasoline. They filled the diesel barrols but I could only get 550 gasoline as he said the tank farm was out and wouldn't get any for 2 days. Thats the first time I could not get all the fuel I wanted.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
mjbrown

06-23-2007 04:19:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: EXpensive propaine? Propaine is by-product!!! in reply to flying belgian, 06-22-2007 19:06:17  
You must not have been around in the seventies.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy