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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What does a condensor do for a gas engine

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Marcuss

05-31-2007 12:52:07




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HI guys,.

On a gas tractor with points and plugs, etc...what purpose does the "condensor" serve for the electrical system?

Thanks!




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dave guest

06-03-2007 19:24:25




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
If you like head scratching, just remove that condensor and try to start that engine. The spark will be so small it will not run 1 second. Won lotta beers on that one.



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dave guest

06-03-2007 19:24:09




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
If you like head scratching, just remove that condensor and try to start that engine. The spark will be so small it will not run 1 second. Won lotta beers on that one.



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cloone

01-17-2008 12:22:40




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 Ki Gass pump in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  



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Leland James

01-17-2008 08:50:43




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 hydroulic top link in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  



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Haywood

01-17-2008 23:57:02




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 Prestolite/Leece Naville Very good Information in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  



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DON L C

01-17-2008 09:28:41




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 Re: side by side buddy seat in reply to dellwoodbu, 01-17-2008 09:17:57  
How about a school bus seat from a salvage yard?

They come in differnt widths..... ..

Don southwestern Ohio.



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RustyFarmall

01-17-2008 18:16:26




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 Re: is this a good buy? in reply to RobMD, 01-17-2008 15:56:41  
My thoughts exactly. Plus it was a rental. I'd walk away from that one.



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Moline_guy

01-17-2008 18:12:05




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 Re: O/T 94 Gran Prix tranny problem in reply to SDE, 01-17-2008 16:53:09  
We blew out the reverse drum on our 94 cutlass this spring, it makes that kind of noise, pretty common in those trans, GM reman supposedly have an improved drum, i got a different trans from a wrecked car in the salvage yard that only had 60,000 on it for 400 bucks. I think a rebuilt GM trans and installation was going to cost around eighteen hundred is what the local mechanic quoted me, which is not too bad if you plan on keeping the car a while. Ours has 215,000 on and still gets 27mpg with wife driving it to work daily.

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ChadS

01-17-2008 08:17:23




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 Re: E-85 in a Stock M in reply to Lanse, 01-16-2008 09:30:44  

onefarmer said: (quoted from post at 08:42:01 01/17/08) I don't know. Never had it ice up with gas. I think the e85 has a differant vaporization point cooling the intake charge more, causing more icing. This was in 90* weather


The E85 will drop incoming air temp thru the manifold up to an extra 15 degrees over gasoline at a 50/50 mix with 87 octane, will also raise the octane of the pump gas, and at the same time dillute the octane rating of the E85,, making it easier to burn. On most Ive converted over, the stock air cleaner is still intact. The line comming out the back of the head,,, that hooks up into the breather,, eventually, engine temps rise and this air becomes warmer and help warm up the incoming air tempurature. They still Iced up a little when they first start up,,, My M is bad about it but once its warmed up, cant ask for a better running M!! If the carb is right,, the mix is right,, they run good, if not better. Never had carb trouble out of properly maintained book spec storage proceedure was followed. Even with the rubber tipped needle valves. Most eninges need to retard the timing to help,, a few degrees, depending on your tractor,,, Throw book spec timing specs out the window,,, well, not out the window, just close the book and set it in a safe place,,, LOL! ChadS ChadS3@hotmail.com

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LA in Wi.

01-17-2008 07:54:41




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 Re: TTractor trip across the USA. in reply to Ron Bywaters, 01-16-2008 21:22:16  
At first I thought this could be a dangerous trip at times, especially in the East with all the heavy traffic on some roads and tractors chugging along. But I see that Chamberlin tractor can run 60 mph(100 km/h). At that speed I"d go just to watch them whiz by! Can you imagine the looks of a motorist going 55 and a tractor passes him?



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JMS/.MN

01-17-2008 08:28:27




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 Re: Farmhand F19 Loader - What size Spring in reply to CSHR08, 01-17-2008 05:12:49  
Dealer locater is at www.agcocorp.com.



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RodInNS

01-17-2008 08:29:20




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 Re: Low Sulfur diesel in my truck in reply to Jeff Oliver, 01-16-2008 14:25:55  
I don't buy into all this stuff about low sulfur fuel harming fuel systems. I've had absolutely ZERO trouble with it in tractors ranging back to the mid 70's. No failures, no leaks, no nothing. I use some Howes upon occassion, but not on a regular basis, and only a minimum amount when I do. The biggest thing I've noticed since the switch to ULSD was a considerable decrease in fuel efficiency, but I don't track it to the gallon either. I just knwo that all 6 machines that are running it here don't get as many hours of work from a full tank of fuel, although it is possible that they are getting pushed harder too. I just know that the tanks get empty quicker...

I'd fill it up and don't give a second thought to the fuel. I think a lot of stuff that gets blamed on LSD and ULSD is probably more to do with water and poor fuel system maintenance than anything else, but I could be wrong.

Rod

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showcrop

01-17-2008 18:09:35




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 Re: Stuck now what.? in reply to Walt Davies, 01-17-2008 16:22:55  
if ya really want to get it out, just take two posts,about 10 inches in diam. and about six feet long. lay one down crossways behind each real wheel, then chain each one to the rear wheels by going around the inside, through your rims then around the outside. just don't get yer chains too tight 'cause after you back up and over your posts you need to be able to unhook your chains.



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MarkB_MI

06-03-2007 05:30:55




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to RAB, 06-02-2007 02:23:23  
Hey RAB,

My explanation might be confusing, but that doesn't make it incorrect. I don't think I said anything that is not true. Yes, it would be nice if we could explain this behavior using only DC circuit fundamentals, but you can't explain transient conditions that way. We have to work in the time domain, and things get very messy there.

Current does indeed flow through the condensor, even though we all know that a condensor is an open circuit to steady state DC. The thing is that when those points open, the circuit is not at steady state at all. You have a big voltage spike generated by the coil primary winding, and that looks like high frequency ac to the condensor. At the instant the points open, the condensor is for all intents and purposes a dead short.

If you don't believe that current can pass through a condensor, try this simple example: Put your multimeter on the ohms scale and connect it to a condensor. You'll see the resistance initially go to a dead short, then climb to infinity. Reverse the leads and you see the resistance go negative, then climb through zero back up to infinity. Now your multimeter has to measure both voltage and current to determine resistance; it's just applying Ohm's Law. So there must be current flowing through the condensor. What happens when the condensor is in the vehicle is exactly the same thing, except is happening much faster because the current through the coil is lot more than what your multimeter is sourcing.

Trying to explain what's happening inside the condensor really just muddles things. Yes, the electrons at the ground side of the condensor must always stay at zero potential, but the coil side of the condensor can have a lot of potential once the points open. Current rushes into the condensor, causing it to charge. As the voltage rises, the current drops until it gets to zero. Then the current reverses back through the coil, increasing as the flux builds up in the coil, then dropping back to zero and reversing direction again. This cycle repeats, but the peak voltage at the condensor is a little less each cycle until it finally stabilizes at battery voltage.

Remember, current through a condensor LEADS voltage by ninety degrees. So the capacitor's voltage will be maximum when current through the capacitor is zero.

BTW, my education is as an electrical engineer, although I haven't worked in the field for many years. The example of the point-type ignition system is (or was) used as a classic example in sophmore ac circuit theory classes.

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Bob Farrell

01-17-2008 08:02:49




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 Re: NorTrac 30 Hp Diesel Dozer - Northern Tool in reply to Bob Farrell, 01-16-2008 09:14:56  
Thanks for all the comments. Think I'll pass and keep looking for a "brand name" used one. Thanks ! Bob Farrell



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georgeky

01-17-2008 08:21:28




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 Re: TTractor trip across the USA. in reply to LA in Wi., 01-17-2008 07:54:41  
It will take a good wagon to stay behind a tractor going 60.



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Walt Davies

05-31-2007 14:41:22




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
The system worked by charging the coil with 6 to 8 volts when the points are closed. When the points open it collapses the magnetic field that was created in the coil. this creates 20,000 volts in the Secondary coil and that goes to the spark plugs.
But it also creates 300 volts in the primary coil that is attached to the points. This has to go someplace and it is strong enough to jump the point opening this will burn the points very, very fast. So a condenser (Capacitor) is put into the system at this point to catch the 300 volts and bleed it off harmlessly into the ground system.
Works kind of like a big hole in the ground to catch the extra water from a spill. When it does not work your points will burn out immediately. One big Poof.
Walt

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olddog

05-31-2007 14:08:22




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
Condensers (Capacitors) give the juice a place to go when the points open. Like a shock absorber... Think water plumbing.... shut the spigot quickly and the pipes bang... technically they do add harmonics to the circuit.



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Coloken

05-31-2007 13:36:20




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
Easier to explain that if you don't have it, the spark will be much smaller, weak, red, and not much good.



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Marcuss

05-31-2007 14:09:17




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Coloken, 05-31-2007 13:36:20  
Can it make a tractor flutter and stall after 2 minutes of idling? Runs great when it is under load and at high throttle, but slow it down, get off the tractor to pickup 5-6 rocks and it will stumble and die after 1-2 mintues of idle. New coil didnt help it. Ford 601.
Now, turn it off, get off to pickup rocks, etc will restart just great!



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Coloken

05-31-2007 14:59:03




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 14:09:17  
Best look to the carburator for that problem. But some times the distributor shaft bearing can get wore and let the gap vary in size. Grab the rotor and wiggle it side ways.



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chevytaHOE5674

03-15-2010 18:45:22




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 Re: Craftman Tools in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 14:09:17  



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old

02-07-2010 17:53:08




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 Re: Had some help grading the drive way in reply to dave2, 02-07-2010 16:48:47  
third party image

Well not sure since I got the female dog when I got my wife it was her dog. She was short and had long hair like the Aus has but other then that I don't no. Oh and here is my Co-pilots son. He is a spooky pup since he was born on Halloween. His mother was a full pit and his dad you have seen. He is so mean he will lick you to death LOL. Oh be careful looking at the picture you might go blind from seeing the ugly one. ME

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supergrumpy

05-31-2007 12:56:36




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to Marcuss, 05-31-2007 12:52:07  
makes the circuit "ring" properly

makes the points last longer



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Bob

05-31-2007 13:16:35




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 Re: What does a condensor do for a gas engine in reply to supergrumpy, 05-31-2007 12:56:36  
Exactly. It's tough to explain to most folks that the condensor does BOTH those thingS



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