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Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nice ou

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jdemaris

05-29-2007 11:16:36




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Cold in the valley this morning - kind of nice view - and sun for a change. Just got done with the 5400 watt solar grid-tie hook-up with the new barn I've been building. Has one special roof to hold the solar panels at the proper angle and the rest - big enough to park a few tractors, dozers, truck, and a backhoe.
I think this is the last pole-barn I'm ever going to build by myself. Putting this one up darn near crippled me. Especially digging the post-holes by hand - and - getting the trusses up.

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John730D

01-17-2008 17:34:11




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 Re: Yesterday's Today's Project Post in reply to super99, 01-17-2008 17:02:15  
The corn was on the ground on the east side of the bins. We loaded it and went around to the dump pit and put it in the bins. Round trip was about one block.



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Bret4207

05-31-2007 12:13:34




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
Don't be posting too many pics like that bud! The city folks cruising this site will figure out they don't have to move out west for "country" and drive our land prices and taxes even higher!

Good job.



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TimV

05-30-2007 11:37:19




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
jdemaris: do you have any words of wisdom on the optimal solar angle for NY? I believe you're in the Albany/Syracuse region, and I'm up a bit north in the Watertown region, but I imagine it's close enough for what I'm up to. Got a wild hair to try a solar air heater, and would probably roof-mount it. Any thoughts or help in pointing me to the right corner of the Web for good advice would be appreciated!

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jdemaris

05-30-2007 13:51:38




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to TimV, 05-30-2007 11:37:19  
I'm no genius on the matter - kind of learning as I go along. I have found out that many "certified" installers are not very well informed. I have a small off-grid solar system very close to Watertown - in the Town of Worth (not really any town there since mail has to go to nearby Lorraine). I'm not sure I know what you mean by the the "solar air" heater. If it's for heating your cabin or house, they are usually mounted on a south wall. Mother Earth magazine just had some plans for one. If for heating hot-water - then it's a roof mount. If you want some good starting info on solar basics - contact "Backwoods Solar Electric Systems" and get their current catalog. The catalog itself is written like a manual and is very informative. They are real nice people too. They are in Sandpoint, ID, phone # 208-263-4290.

In regard to my angle - best roof pitch for our area for a fixed mount solar-electric array is 42.5 degrees pointing true south (not magnetic).

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TimV

05-30-2007 19:33:59




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-30-2007 13:51:38  
jdemaris: Thanks for the good information--I'm very much in the early stages of this myself. I agree with you that a lot of the solar info out there is conflicting, and I don't know enough about it (yet!) to seperate the wheat from the chaff, if you will. What I'm looking at doing is a roof-mounted hot-air solar heater. I've seen the wall-mounted ones as well, but my thinking was that I'd get more heat if I roof-mounted it. That may or may not be correct, but like I said, I'm still in the planning stage, a process that's been known to consume years :-) I assume that the 42.5 degrees is from horizontal?

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Tim B from MA

05-30-2007 07:28:17




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
Good on you JD!

If more of us would step up to the plate with some short-term investment and sacrifice for long-term gain, we could greatly reduce our use of oil and other fossil fuels and, maybe, one day give our middle finger to the Middle East.



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David in Wales

05-30-2007 02:59:54




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
Hi Buddy;
You are a LUCKY MAN to look over that view, I wish we could wake up and look over that beautiful valley. Great photos.
David



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buickanddeere

05-29-2007 20:29:00




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
Fine location and solar system there.



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Billy NY

05-29-2007 19:29:11




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
JD, that is a nice shot with the fog settled into the valley, same thing happens here, and that ulmus americana ( american elm ) is a favorite tree, nice spot for it on the hill, they have a great canopy when mature. This month we've had the best darned weather, and good lengths of it, the likes of which has not been seen in years for this month, at least it seems it, last year, all of May was rain. Kind of a hill dweller here too, and I'll agree about the hard work involved with constructing something like that by yourself, I've got one 20 x 32 to top off here, but will have a few friends help.

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jdemaris

05-30-2007 13:58:52




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 Elms trees in reply to Billy NY, 05-29-2007 19:29:11  
Yeah, we really like the Elms. But . . . they still often die from Dutch Elm disease once they reach a certain size. We have some here that are bigger than usual - and we've wondered if we are just isolated from the disease here, or maybe they are resistant? The new resistant elm that is being sold and planted now - was bred from naturally resistant trees gathered from around the country - but we don't have of them that we know of.

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Billy NY

05-30-2007 15:30:56




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 Re: Elms trees in reply to jdemaris, 05-30-2007 13:58:52  
They used to be abundant, still reproduce quickly, grow fast, but that dutch elm disease, (no thanks to it being imported over here by who knows) really did some damage again in NY, especially over this way and on south down the NYS thruway. There were some magnificent elm trees back in the day, splendid canopy on them, was America's tree on many streets. I have seen a few photos where the giants that lived here were still alive, but all the big ones are gone now, but smaller ones getting bigger are still coming up. That beetle spreads a fungus that shuts off it's water supply, you can inject the trees with fungicide, suppose to innoculate them, for how long I'm not sure, I did it once to a favorite tree, but the tree had flagged already,(one branch yellowed out) meaning it had the disease when I did it, best to get it before for survival, elm research institute sells the supplies, not cheap either, but for that favorite tree that took so long to grow, why not is what I said. I pumped over 55 gallons into that tree at the roots, amazing how much it sucked up. They also sell the liberty elm, which is resistant, but I don't think it has the same height and canopy, could be wrong. The natural species seems to come in a few forms, but nothing like that tall one with nice canopy, shame most mature specimens are gone. So many bad things have been imported here, people just did not know back then.

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jdemaris

05-31-2007 06:12:48




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 Re: Elms trees in reply to Billy NY, 05-30-2007 15:30:56  
Yeah, and New York has a new threat now. There's some sort of Chinese beetle that was found in Michigan - and it's killing 1000s of trees there (forget which type). So, Michigan has been quarantined from selling live trees across the state lines. Some Michigan nursery guy just got caught breaking the law - and it's too late. He sent a bunch of trees to New York, and now the Chinese beetle is here. I assume, it would of happened anyway, sooner or later.

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Billy NY

05-31-2007 08:41:37




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 Re: Elms trees in reply to jdemaris, 05-31-2007 06:12:48  
That's sad, break the law for a buck, who cares about the other guy's natural resources. I realize and cannot criticize someone for trying to make a living, that person knowingly made a conscious decision send them here anyway, who knows, probably could have migrated here too, hopefully it can be dealt with, or there will be a lot of firewood in the woods!



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rodgernbama

05-29-2007 17:55:03




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
Just curious as to why you did'nt opt for local electric service. If my calculations are correct that was a substantial investment for the solar panels.



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jdemaris

05-30-2007 06:13:14




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to rodgernbama, 05-29-2007 17:55:03  
I've got local electric service - otherwise I couldn't call it a "grid-tie" system. Installing a system of this size without being hooked to the grid would not make much sense in my situation. There will be times when the system is making much more power that I can use, and others when it doesn't make half what I need - or at night - none at all. By being tied to the grid - they have to buy back all the power I make that I cannot use at the time - and then let me have it back when I'm ready for it. Anything above what I don't use, they pay me for it. This way, the power company becomes my personal power-storage facility. In regard to why I did it and the expense? I'm trying to look ahead - and do something on my own - instead of hoping the government is somehow going to fix everything. I hear all this crap about energy problems and expense, yet see very few people doing anything about it on their own. Total rates for electricity have doubled here in 10 years. Most of the large grid-companies now in the U.S. are foreign owned by British companies - maybe it's payback for the Revolution. The vast majority of all electricity made in the U.S. is from burning coal - which can't last. 2nd largest source is Canadian hyro which also has a questionable future. At present, in New York, New Jersey, and California (and maybe a few more states), you can get half the cost of a new solar-electric system paid for - if done right and grid-tied. Most of us taxpayers all ready pay into the fund - that subsidizes this. So, I'm getting some of my tax dollars back - for once. And, for people living in the southwest - even if they do NOT get money back, solar equipment out there is yield twice the power as it does here in NY - so only half as much is needed. This system has a total price-tag of $54,000. We wound up paying, out-of-pocket, $23,000. Once it's been operated for two years, we own it. I can take it down, take it with me and move somewhere else if I choose. So, for $23,000 we've got a system that provides more than all our electric needs, and I know that most of the system will still be working after I'm dead and buried. The panels have a 25 year warranty. I also know, that regardless of what happens in this country - in regard to grid-prices going up, or - some sort of disaster with NO power available, I can keep making all the power I want. So, you might regard it as extravagant - I see it as a good long-term investment for many reasons. Considering my neighbor just bought a new pickup truck for $42,000 - and it will be sitting in a junkyard in 20 years - or sitting in my driveway after I buy it for $500 - the electric system seems like a pretty good deal.

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PatMz

05-29-2007 11:21:56




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 11:16:36  
That looks pretty sharp; almost a classic "salt-box". And obviously well ventilated!

What manufacturer did you use for the solar panels? Did you incorporate any storage capacity?



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jdemaris

05-29-2007 13:44:00




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to PatMz, 05-29-2007 11:21:56  
Panels are thirty Kyocera 175GT's. Didn't choose them for any particular reason other than the price. They were the best deal at the time, and prices are going up all the time.
As to storage - yes. I have a limited battery backup system with eight Rolls/Surette S560 batteries - each is 530 amphours and 6 volts. Battery bank is series wired for 48 VDC and I have no DC going to the house since the 240'run is too long for low-voltage DC. There are dual Outback inverters at the barn that send 240 VAC to the house. Very often with long runs like mine, the panels get wired for 200-400 VDC which is much easier to run a long distance. But, doing that pretty much eliminates the ability to use battery backup.

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PatMz

05-30-2007 05:58:23




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 13:44:00  
When we started building our house 9 years ago 50 miles southeast of Denver my wife wanted to go completely off the grid. She also did not want to change our "electrical lifetsyle". We don;t use as muchas most folks, a coupke hours of TV, she's a fiend for turning off anthing electric (the clock on the oven drives her batty, and the fact that appliances seem to use power all the time, even when "off" ticks her off!)

I found that at that time I could generate tons of electricity, all we'd need, for well under $20K, with a combination solar and wind. However, storage for our low average use was astronomical! We have a meter now!

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JMS/MN

05-29-2007 16:57:34




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to jdemaris, 05-29-2007 13:44:00  
Do you change the angle of the panels on a seasonal basis?



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jdemaris

05-30-2007 05:53:20




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 Re: Solar tractor barn - NY when it's actually nic in reply to JMS/MN, 05-29-2007 16:57:34  
No, in this part of the Northeast, it's not worth it - not as big a gain with tracking as if I was out in the southwest. Some people might disagree - and there are many variables to account for including length of days, higher efficiencly of the panels in extreme cold winter weather,etc. In my situation - the extra expense of adjustable panelracks is not worth the small gain. My roof is angled to get good efficiency year-round and is based on some compromise. I know a few people in my area that have done it both ways, so it pretty well documented what works, and what does not.

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