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starting fluid

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Donk th e dude

05-09-2007 13:27:47

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Looking at a 90's Kubota that the saleman had to use starting fluid to start. Says it doesnt always need it. He said that starting fluid does not hurt, harm or impact a diesel engine.

Any truth or concern to this? One wiff and bang, it fired right up. I know nothing about starting fluid!

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Walt Davies

05-10-2007 09:59:14

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Well now that you have all the facts for and against it.
I did a little search on this and you get the same stuff as the list don't use as it blow your engine up and how much to use for a specific engine.

I guess its up to you as to who to believe, personally I used it since I was in the Navy and it came is small red plastic containers. It would sure rattle that 6/71 but I never saw any damage from it.
As I said before a lot of tractors have the system built right in to them.
Walt

Ether Use.

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RodInNS

05-10-2007 14:25:00

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Walt Davies, 05-10-2007 09:59:14

You're as well aware as me that those injection systems are a far different ball game then somebody going with a blow can to the breather. Moderation is a key often lacking in the use of those cans. Ether injection systems work fine in my opinion.
Cans are dangerous in the wrong hands.

As far as this orange booger is concerned.... I think it ought to start without ether, and without glow plugs this time of year. At the very least, the glow plugs should be fixed. Why use ether on something like that when the OEM system could easily be made to work? Me thinks there are some impending problems developing in that engine.

Rod

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buickanddeere

05-10-2007 09:30:01

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Have to wonder why the glowplugs don't work on a tractor that new? Has somebody hit that engine with ether back when the glowplugs were working? As previously stated a "wee little bit of ether never hurt anything". However "way too much ether" is a too common event. For any engine in cool or cold weather. Why not plug it in and pre-heat it for easy starting & less engine wear? Do some people see themselves as heroes by somehow starting an engine that otherwise wouldn't go by just hitting the starter?

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TimS in Mo

05-10-2007 08:51:27

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Both my Kubotas (smaller ones, 17 hp and 25 hp) required glow plug usage, regardless of how warm it was outside...in the winter they would need a long glow time usage (30 seconds or more) before they would start.

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souNdguy

05-10-2007 07:27:34

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

I'd pass on it.. a 'newish' tractor already addicted to starter fluid... only gets worse from there..

Soundguy

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MLD

05-10-2007 05:34:36

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

I've always heard starting fluid is hard on an engine, but it works. I think if you use it in limited quanity you should be ok. I would want the heating system working, remember some of those saleman will tell you anything to make the sale.

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Walt Davies

05-09-2007 22:16:00

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

I have two Kubotas an L-285 that you have to preheat when cold but not hot and an L 2340 that you have to preheat almost all the time. I think they just don't like starting up on cold fuel.
If the preheat isn't working then you will need to use either to start it. If used correctly it won't hurt anything. "Hell" A lot of 50s and 60's tractors came with either starting system built right in to them. If the Manufacturers don't care about it them why should you. there are a lot of Old wive's tales out there, just because some guy took an old worn out engine and pumped it full of either and then it blew the head off doesn't mean that its all bad.
Walt

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Jim Johnson

05-09-2007 18:36:51

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Tell them to fix the tractor and then you will talk, and only then.

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135 Fan

05-09-2007 16:08:34

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

I have a Kubota V1902B in my skid steer. It is indirect injection and has glow plugs. Any kind of starting fluid should not be used on a machine with glow plugs. Apparently you could blow the heads off. Kubota's would be particularly bad as the glow plugs stay on when you turn the key to start. My machine needs glow plugs to start even in really warm weather unless it is warm from already being run. This is normal. The newer version V1903 is direct injection and starts easier but still uses glow plugs. Kubota's are a very good engine and are made with very tight clearances. Using starting fluid can ruin them very quickly. This is what an experienced mechanic at the dealership told me. Some diesel engines are designed so that starting fluid can be used. Usually the factory installed system is the best as it only lets in a small metered amount of starting fluid. On a lot of Cats they have a temperature sensor in the coolant that won't allow the solonoid for the starting fluid to operate. Otherwise it could also ruin an engine. Glow plugs are a safer way of starting a diesel. If it is still hard to start get a good heater for it. I would be really leary of the tractor you mentioned. Of course a guy that has to use starting fluid is going to tell you it doesn't do any harm. It does though as it costs him a sale to anyone just a little smarter than him. Keep looking would be my opinion. Dave

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135 Fan

05-09-2007 16:13:14

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Re: starting fluid in reply to 135 Fan, 05-09-2007 16:08:34

I should add that my machine is a 1994 purchased new. The direct injection engines came out a little later because of a few reasons. One of them being direct injection has lower emmissions. They usually start easier as well. Dave

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OliverGuy

05-09-2007 15:55:54

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

I usually don"t even need the glowplugs in the winter also. I"d walk away and find another. On the whole, they are a very good tractor. Ran the last one for 3 years and 1800 hrs and only changed the fan belt. Take care of them and service them correctly and they"ll last a long time.

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Bryan in Iowa

05-09-2007 15:45:08

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

WD40 works great ,,less bang than ether, and some lube to it .

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georgeky

05-09-2007 15:36:11

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

We have had three of them rice burners and none of them would start without the glow plugs even at 90 degrees outside.My 32 year old IH 666 starts right up even in cool weather. During cold weather less than 30 degrees I plug up the block heater

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old

05-09-2007 15:22:47

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

If your looking at buying it I think I would keep looking. Sounds like its been run hard and put away wet a few to many times

Hobby farm

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Donk the D

05-09-2007 14:19:26

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

GOod advice, I will ask them the question!

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Donk the dude

05-09-2007 14:05:03

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

He says the preheat system (glow plugs?) isnt working right now. Its important for me that it does because we get cold here. But he is going to see about getting it fixed. It came from a mild climate, and needs some service to the preheat so I am told.

I think its just straight old starter right now, not any assistance. Its a 64 HP engine, dynoed for 2 hours at 63 HP.

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Luke S

05-09-2007 13:56:13

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

My Kubota's start on the first turn in this weather without any aid including the glow plugs. In the dead of winter when it is zero degrees they will still fire right up with no ether, not being pluged in, just holding the glow plugs for ten or fifteen seconds. Kubota's are historically easy starting tractors, I'd pass on this one if I was you.

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glennster

05-09-2007 13:48:50

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

if the tractor has glow plugs, and they work and it still needs ether to start, the motor is worn out, not enough compression for the diesel to fire. i'd take a pass on the tractor unless you want to do a major on it. if you need to ether a glow plug motor, spray the ether on a rag and hold it by the air intake. you can damage pistons and rings if they ether lock when you try to start em if you use too much ether.

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Michael Soldan

05-09-2007 13:40:12

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Too much can harm an engine by washing the oil off of the cylinder walls or worse yet destroying the top of a piston..is he using starting fluid to mask the fact that the glow plug pre heat system is not working?? I would avoid using ether when possible but I do have a tractor that has an ether can built into the system to help start it..I haven't used it in several years

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dhermesc

05-09-2007 13:37:38

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Re: starting fluid in reply to Donk th e dude, 05-09-2007 13:27:47

Your salesman is selling you a load of BS.

Most (I would say all but I'm not 100% sure) Kubotas have glow plugs. At this time of year a minute or so of warming up the glow plugs should be all it needs to fire up. If its warm (50 degrees or higher) anything beyond glow plugs indicates one of three problems; the glow plugs aren't working, the engine has low compression and needs major work or the injectors are out of time.

In the winter a quick sniff of ether isn't that big of deal. Small amounts carefully administered will not "harm" an engine, but its pretty easy to go too far especially when you have to give it a shot everytime you (or the yahoo that thinks if a little is good a lot is better) try to start it.

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Ludwig

05-09-2007 14:18:27

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Re: starting fluid in reply to dhermesc, 05-09-2007 13:37:38

Careful,

A quick wiff of ether on a DIRECT INJECTION engine is okay. A quick wiff of ether on an indirect injection engine could crack the precombustion chamber and result in a costly repair.

I presume the Kubota like most tractors is direct injection but we should probably be careful about these things.

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