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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Resistor placement

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newtothisgame

05-06-2007 19:47:58




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where do i place the external resistor in 50 ZAU MM 12v system with 6v coil




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CRUSADER

05-13-2007 10:33:52




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to newtothisgame, 05-06-2007 19:47:58  
The place that I have always (years ago, not working as a mechanic presently) was between the ignition switch and the coil. However, if you are using a 12 volt system/battery you could get a coil from/for an older GM vehicle and it should work just fine. Have done this on numerous Farmall when converting from 6 volt to 12 volt and haven't had any problems.

Jim



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Don L C

05-07-2007 14:23:09




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to newtothisgame, 05-06-2007 19:47:58  
Between the ignition switch and the coil....



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Gerald J.

05-06-2007 19:57:57




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to newtothisgame, 05-06-2007 19:47:58  
Between the ignition switch and the coil.

Gerald J.



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Dale B

05-06-2007 20:45:28




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Gerald J., 05-06-2007 19:57:57  
Gerald , I've seen this advice before and I wonder what difference it would make. If it was between the points and ground , it would still be absorbing the excess volage at the instant the points close , right ? Its of course more conventional to put it on the ign switch side , but what is the difference ? Thanks, Dale



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Janicholson

05-07-2007 19:45:22




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Dale B, 05-06-2007 20:45:28  
There is substantial interaction of voltage between the condenser and the coil as the magnetism collapses. This causes multiple sparks and can be seen clearly on an Oscilloscope. I believe a resistor there would not be in the best interests of the dynamic spark activity. Someone with a scope should do the experiment. JimN



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Gerald J.

05-07-2007 07:38:04




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Dale B, 05-06-2007 20:45:28  
The points always have one side grounded. Makes it inconvenient to wire the resistor there.

The resistor has no effect on the coil voltage when the points close because an inductor takes zero current at the instant the points close. The current rises (exponentially) according to the L/R ratio and the resistor limits the peak current. The use of the resistor also allows a more rapid rise in current good for high speed engines because the low voltage coil will have lower inductance giving a better L/R ratio with the external resistor for very high speed engines.

I suppose the resistor could be wired between the coil and the distributor too, but never is though if a coil has an internal resistor is switched in polarity it might. If the resistor was between the coil and the points it could confuse someone trouble shooting the ignition system expecting the points terminal to go to ground with the points closed and might effect an electronic tachometer connected there also. I've not tried putting the resistor there, my gas 4020 uses the resistor shorting by a special contact on the starter solenoid for better starting. Originally that resistor was hidden in the ignition switch and sometimes in iron wires that look like copper wires.

Gerald J.

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rvirgil

05-07-2007 11:25:21




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Gerald J., 05-07-2007 07:38:04  
I believe that the discussion regarding bypassing of resistor for increased spark at start is correct.
From the standpoint of a DC circuit..from ground through points, coil, resistor, switch to battery the placement of resistor would not matter.
But another thing to consider is the condenser in parallel with the points. The purpose of the condenser is to provide a low impedance return path to ground for energy stored in the coil when points open. To put the resistor between the coil and points\condenser would reduce efficiency of condenser and could give defective condenser symptoms.

rvirgil ...Kansas

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Sam#3

05-07-2007 05:22:12




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Dale B, 05-06-2007 20:45:28  
Electrically you're correct. It's a series circuit so the voltage drops are proportional regardless of their position. Physically it would be impossible to get a twenty-watt resistor fitted inside the distributor.



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RAB

05-07-2007 02:41:47




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 Re: Resistor placement in reply to Dale B, 05-06-2007 20:45:28  
Ballast resistors were put on vehicles with 12 volt electrics originally to improve starting. Full stop. No other reason. This was to utilise the stronger spark from a 12 volt battery and 6 volt coil (rather than from a 12 volt battery and 12 volt coil) when cranking due to the larger voltage drop with the more modern, smaller, less costly batteries of the day. To do this they bypassed the ballast resistor only when cranking (fed from starter solenoid). This gave a stronger spark (from higher primary current)for starting only and reverted to the normal running circuit as soon as the feed to the starter solenoid was interrupted (when engine fired up)to prevent coil overheat and rapid contact point burn. SO, the ballast resistor was fitted before the coil with a bypass link to the coil from the starter solenoid. You would not be able to bypass it if it was fitted after the coil. If you do not want the option of a stronger spark at start-up, it makes no difference where you put that item in a series circuit. The ballast resistor is there to limit the current in the circuit. It will have a potential drop accross it as the p.d. will be shared across all the components (battery, connections, resistor, coil, wires)in proportion to the resistance values in the circuit).
Hope this helps.
Regards, RAB

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Gerald J.

05-07-2007 07:22:29




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 Re: Resistor placement -- Another reason in reply to RAB, 05-07-2007 02:41:47  
Yes, the series resistor to the coil can be shorted out for better starting. That is not the only reason for the resistor in all engines, it is the important reason in a tractor engine (slow speed).

In a high speed engine the use of a coil with resistor will run better because the L/R ratio of the combination will allow a much faster rise of the coil primary current when the points close so that the dwell time can be shorter and still have good ignition power. The output ignition power depends on the peak current just before the points open. The inductance of the coil primary causes that current to rise relatively slowly, but using twice the voltage with a resistor will allow that current to rise considerably faster and so allow the engine to run considerably faster. This probably has no detectable effect below 6,000 or 8000 RPM on an 8 cylinder engine, but for high speed engines the resistor is very important.

Gerald J.

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