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O/T X Breeding

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Ken-in-K

04-26-2007 07:10:58




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I was reading the post 'I am now in the cattle business', ans was asking if anyone has experience and or knows of X breeding angus and holstien , I would sure like to have some input. or if you consider the offspring a viable proposition at the sale barn.




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Clint Youse mO

04-26-2007 11:51:09




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
only reason for dairy cross with beef is for embryo transfer because the cows milk good. As for the Certified angus beef the traits are

1 Modest or higher marbling 2 Medium or fine marbling texture 3 "A" maturity for each, lean and skeletal characteristics 4 10 to 16 square inch ribeye area 5 Less than 1,000 pound hot carcass weight 6 Less than 1 inch fat thickness 7 Superior muscling (eliminates dairy influence) 8 Practically free of capillary rupture 9 No dark cutters 10 No neck hump exceeding 2 inches

the 1000 pound carcass rule does apply and considering most cattle cut 65% that is about a 1550 pound live animal around here that is pretty large framed. The holstien crosses will usually not meet the marbeling requirments for CAB

Clint

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mjbrown

04-26-2007 11:02:10




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
I started out with those and some are kinda beefy and some look like black holsteins. The Angus will take the horns off some of them. I kept them and bred AI to a polled beef breed. They make a lot of milk for their calves. The 3/4 bloods were better and the7/8s were better yet. In four or five years I had some decent quality cattle. Use AI and breed in quality. All your other costs are the same to raise good cattle as it is to raise mutts.

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NEIADan

04-26-2007 10:03:56




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
our original beef herd was from my father breeding holstein heifers to angus and keeping the heifers to build a beef herd. Now, I buy a few hundred feeder calves to put with our own raised calves, which are now 90 percent beef. i get stuck with a holstein cross sometimes when I buy cattle and curse them. They are way to costly to feed $3.50 corn to and some are in the feedlot longer than my second marriage and still don't finish. They need a different ration to get a good finish. But we feed for the colored cattle and just get frustrated and sell them dairy crosses out of the lot. I love to feed the angus simmental crosses or the Gelbvieh angus cross. A good red gelbvieh cross will finish and sell in the top 5% every day

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dhermesc

04-26-2007 08:47:15




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
Given the hype of "ANGUS BEEF" a lot of farmers are cross breeding holstien cows with an Angus bulls to sell as a big Angus. The buyers at Tyson pretty much represent any cow that is 85% black or more is an Angus.



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rrlund

04-26-2007 08:58:49




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to dhermesc, 04-26-2007 08:47:15  
Certified Angus Beef doesn't just mean color. There are 8 carcus traits that have to be met to reach certification and it can't be done until after slaughter. The black hide is just one of the traits. I read in the Angus Bulletin recently that another trait they were going to was that the animal can't weigh more than 1000 pounds at slaughter. This is because the rib eyes have become too large for the food service industry. So this definately throws out the "large Angus" holstein cross. Again,I urge you,don't cross with dairy cattle if you are serious about being in the beef cattle business. So,you in Kentucky then? Where at?

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Ken-in-K

04-26-2007 14:26:59




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to rrlund, 04-26-2007 08:58:49  
rr Summershade is south of us , about 5 miles, eighty eight is a further 4 miles west of SS, Yes Ben & Elmer are located in Glasgow bought parts service and some equipment , friendly people , Thanks for being upfront with your post , much appreciated.



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dhermesc

04-26-2007 11:12:43




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to rrlund, 04-26-2007 08:58:49  
Kansas.

I don't think their buyers ever heard of the that 1000 pound limit idea either.



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Ken-in-K

04-26-2007 09:54:42




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to rrlund, 04-26-2007 08:58:49  
Kentucky , yes, about 15miles east of Glasgow at Edmonton, actually when I mentioned Holstien I wasn't trying to raise big Angus, I guess my pocket ruled my head mainly because of price,although after say two generations would the calf be higher percentage Angus, just a thought, I read your piece on traits and that probably rules out the higher percentage Angus bit, Let's say my preference is Angus Hereford X's , but around here there are many mixtures , I don't have lots of money , but would like to find maybe 2 A/He X heifer to go with my Angus bull.At this stage straight Hereford may price me out of the market.

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rrlund

04-26-2007 10:17:28




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 09:54:42  
You're not too far from Eighty Eight then are you? I love it down there and around Summershade! Gotta be the most beautiful place on planet earth. You ever do business with Ben and Elmers? Seem to be nice folks. We got some haybine parts from them a few years ago. They told me they used to be Oliver dealers.



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rrlund

04-26-2007 08:45:51




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
I've read everything below. If you're going to be in the beef business,I wouldn't mess with the holsteins. I have one here that I've kept around just because she is blind. She breeds back and the big advantage to her is that she will feed any calf that gets near her,so if a heifer abandons a calf or something,she'll raise it. But as for what somebody said below about them gaining fast in the feedlot,that's bunk. They will gain faster than a straight holstein,but can't hold a candle to a straight beef breed. I do prefer cross bred cows,but crossed beef breeds,not crossed with dairy breeds. The straight beef are even more vigorous and healthy,take extremes in the weather better. We've found that crossing an Angus to a Limo or Simmental makes a good cow. We have 9 Herefords left here yet. We don't have great luck with longevity in the straight Herefords,their teats get to big too soon and the calves can't get their mouths around them. We do like the Angus Hereford crosses though,Black Baldies. We get fast growth on their calves,and I mean real fast. The cows tend to be a little smaller than straight Hereford and eat less,have smaller teats and more longevity. But,if you have some holstein cows or heifers,do what I did,they are worth good money,sell them and buy some good beef cows. Two holsteins will get you three or four beef cows and a HECK of a lot better calf.

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M Nut

04-26-2007 08:22:29




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
Angus cross would work well. The adult cross breds have large frames and produce lots of milk. Good for rasing calves.



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freddy farmer

04-26-2007 08:05:53




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
My dad always crossed his holstien cows with an Angus bull. The caves are smaller at birth causing less caving problems. A holstien angus crossed caves will gain faster in the feed lot.



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Sam (Mo)

04-26-2007 07:53:24




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
I have a cuople of short horn that a cross with a red angus. they use made nice babies. Great milkers too.

Sam



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Sam (Mo)

04-26-2007 07:53:09




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
I have a cuople of short horn that a cross with a red angus. they use made nice babies. Grat milkers too.

Sam



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Ken 46

04-26-2007 07:39:38




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken-in-K, 04-26-2007 07:10:58  
Some of my best cows were 1/2 Angus and 1/2 dairy breed. Always kept a GOOD Angus or Polled Hereford Bull to make beef calves.
These mommas milked great - key to good growing calves.
Worked for us



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Ken-in-K

04-26-2007 08:40:33




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 Re: O/T X Breeding in reply to Ken 46, 04-26-2007 07:39:38  
Just as I thought , good milkers for the calves, was concerned the buyers of the calves , which are now part beef were good sellers as beef cattle such as cents per pound live weight, Don't know much about genetics , white/ black patch doesn't seem to rate very high with the black. I've got two Angus bull and the holstien can be got fairly easily from local dairies.Last year I sold some holstien and the price was about 20c off.

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