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cattle question

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tractormiallis

04-14-2007 20:02:30




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I dont raise cows, but at what age is it most common to castrate a bull? A distant neighbor new to cattle who has only had cows a few years attempted to desex a bull that was probably a year old and the cow bled to death. I saw it lying out dead and it seemed a waste and irresponsible as it seemed to be too old to do safely on the animal. I would think the procedure need to be done as a young calf only weeks old so as to cause minimal problems and controling the animal

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Marc Haffner

04-19-2007 16:39:54




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
My wife and I have a cattle operation in Northwest Iowa and we band our bull calves about a week after they are born. They are easier to handle when they are 90 pounds versus 500 pounds.



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Bob N.Y.

04-15-2007 17:14:28




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
One thing I learned in college is that you don't cut the cord cleanly. It should be crushed or scraped in two. That allows for faster clotting.



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rrlund

04-15-2007 12:09:57




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I'm right down here in Sheridan as you might know. We band them when we wean in the fall,about 500 to 700 pounds. If you are interested,I have a Calicrate Bander that I paid $275 for,used it two years. I had to go to the large Tri-Bander because my arthritis wouldn't let me use the Calicrate all day long anymore. Drop me an email if you want to look at it,I'd make somebody a heck of a deal on it. I'd concidered taking it to Trufant,but I didn't think anybody would know the real value of it and I'd take a bath on it.

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Bill(Wis)

04-15-2007 10:44:13




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Banding works the best. It cuts off circulation and the scrotum and testicles just wither away and dry up. No mess at all. If you don't want to spend money on a banding device, a piece of strong cord string tied up pretty snug will do the same thing. Just make sure, in the case of a young one, that the testicles are descended. I've done hundreds with cord string. We always painted the area with iodine but I don't think that's necessary. ??

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RayP(MI)

04-15-2007 17:14:47




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 Re: cattle question in reply to Bill(Wis), 04-15-2007 10:44:13  
Well, I tried to band a ram sheep one time, after he got a little large for the elastic bands we had (little larger than a Cheerio.) Used a plastic wire tie, pulled a tight as I could get it, tightened it a couple times later. Things did not go well, ended up finishing the job with a box knife, and he got flystruck. Almost lost him. Now, I try to get them as soon as I'm sure both testicles are decended, and make sure I get both thru ring. (Had one that only lost one testicle, and scrotum - don't want to do that again, either.)

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NE IA Dave

04-15-2007 10:31:22




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Even if I'm a old man and got involved up to my ears in cutting bulls I do not claim to be an expert. That being said we ignore all rules, and cut by the sign. Our sign was when the knife is sharp, and you got the time. Around here some folks do it the first day or two, others wait till cooler weather, less chance of maggots. I have heard of guys loosing cattle afterwards, just like the gall who got aids and give it to a hundred others, all the farms lost to gambling. Of course it has happened, just hard to actualy find a eye to eye case of it.

My dad always said you had to make two cuts, a guy that I worked for just grabbed the tip of the sack with a pliers, pulled down and cut the bottom of the sack off. Never have I cut the cord, just pulled hard till you got the prize. Other than in a hurry to get out of the chute they never seemed fit to run a race for a week or so.

As kids we always had to clean the prizes, and boys will be boys so we always put one in our mouths and chased our sisters. While helping my unckle, my cousin chased my sisters and his sisters in one house door and when they ran out the other door, first was the screaming girls, then my cousin, then his mom smacking his rear with a broom. He was pretty proud of the procedure, when he returned to help us, and remarked how the girls were afraid of a bloody nut in his mouth. He had blood all over his face, and a hair as well, when I pointed out the hair on his mouth he took it off and puked all over. We still remind him of that.

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Mike (WA)

04-15-2007 08:58:01




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I still think about the disaster I had back in the early '70's- I was just getting started in registered Shorthorns- had 5 bull calves and only one heifer that year. On a nice day in October, my dad came over and we cut the 5 bulls- they were spring calves, and ranged from 450-650 lbs. Dad had cut hundreds of calves, and nothing went wrong on any of these. Got up the next morning, and 3 of the 5 were dead. None of them bled, and we never could find any reason for the deaths. It did get into the low 30's that night, but they were all in a dry corral, and no reason for any problem. I never cut another calf- got an elastrator, and did them young, and never had another problem. Got out of cattle in 1985, and I can't say that I've missed them.

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Wild Bill Caldwell

04-15-2007 08:37:40




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Growin' up in the north La....We planted by the signs,butchered by the signs,casterated in the right signs...I still do. Scott is right. Casterate when the signs are in the feet. Saw their horns off when the signs are in the feet. Get Your dental work done or teeth pulled when the signs are in the feet.

Bill Caldwell



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4010guy

04-15-2007 08:54:20




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 Re: cattle question in reply to Wild Bill Caldwell, 04-15-2007 08:37:40  
Well it just so happens my toe nails need clipen,,,when do ya tink i should to dat,,,,;o)



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Dave H (MI)

04-15-2007 07:37:05




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I've been around animals all my life but this topic still makes me uncomfortable. Sympathy pains and all.....



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R. John Johnson

04-15-2007 07:37:05




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Put a ring on them when they are a couple of days old. No fuss, no mess, easy to do

John



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farmeralidaho

04-15-2007 06:44:22




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
over the years we have probably done a few thousand casterations on calves (usually less than 3 months old), as far as I can think back we have never lost one from bleeding to death but I know it can happen. We always used a sharp pocket knife until about 8 years ago I bought a Burdizzo and started using it. Its like a big strange looking pair of plyers, you use it one nut at a time and it will cut the cord through the bag, crimp it on wait 10 seconds then do the other, there is no blood and the nut absorbes back into the calfs body. When I used a knife the next day lots of calves were stiff walking around and sick acting for a few days, with the Burdizzo the next day the steer calves are up and playing like the heifers. Bigger calves like yearlings I usually have a vet cut them.

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TGIN

04-15-2007 04:34:26




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I band most of mine when they are born , they dont even know they had`em . I`ve got a bander in my truck box and tractor box and my back pocket when I take a walk . Alot easyer to fight a little one than a big`un , keep one eye on moma though !!!



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RMinVA

04-15-2007 03:17:27




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I use the large bander. I band at 400-550 pounds. Each calf gets a tetnus shot when banding. Bull calves will grow faster if you wait to this age.

I can band a 10 year old bull if need be. Never done it but it will work.

I've used this big bander for 8 years now. Never had a problem and never had a stag. I band about 30 per year with mine and several neighbors. The bander has paid for itself in the extra weight the calves put on.

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Walt Davies

04-14-2007 22:31:28




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
I quit castrating a while back it doesn't make any difference in the meat or weight so why waste the time on something you are going to butcher anyway. Besides some people like the Mountain Oysters. also I raise Registered Limousin and you never know when somebody will come by an want a nice bull.
Walt

PS turn them in to animal control for letting the animal just lay out an die thats not right an people should learn that its not right.

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Jim Johnson

04-15-2007 04:38:31




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 Re: cattle question in reply to Walt Davies, 04-14-2007 22:31:28  
Well Walt what would you have done ? It just happens and there isn't nothing you can do, it,s pretty rare when this occurs but there's no stopping the damage at that point. What good would calling animal control do, do you think the man wanted this to happen out of meanness?

I too like to use the big banders, they work good. But I know folks that castrated all their life and never had this happen. I can guarantee it was not on purpose.

Let's not advocate getting the Gov. involved every time we get a sick animal because your turn will come.

Jim

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Scott(MO)

04-14-2007 22:31:28




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
We usually try to do it from 2 months up to 6 months (depending on when we can get them caught).A lot of guys around here use the rubber band method. You can use this on calves up to 250 pounds. If done properly, that fellows bull should not have bled to death. I know this is not scientific, but most old timers around here castrate when the "sign" is right (according to the Alamanac). If I remember right, they like to castrate when the sign is in the "feet". They say it will reduce blood loss. My theory is castrate when you have them caught and your knife is sharp. As far as controlling the animal, it's not that big of a deal. Just run them in a catch chute and have someone hold their tale over their back which keeps them from kicking and you can hobble them as well if you want to (although we don't). While one guy holds the tail , another cuts. Then spray them down with iodine and your done. *** You want to try to do this during cool weather so the flies won't be a problem.

Scott

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jimtdd

04-14-2007 21:58:37




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
cruelty to animals! I would kick his a$$!



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edchainsaw

04-14-2007 20:49:58




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Dad and grampa and uncle did some 3yr olds in the past...

I got so I just sell off the young bulls ( less than a year old) as I have no help holding them or catching them when they are a couple days old. We used the rubber band (cherrio) method



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4010guy

04-14-2007 20:40:01




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Well im probably going to gross you all out here with this but here goes.,,When you pull the nut out of the sac after you cut the bottom of the sac open you pull the cord out as far as you can and start cutting the cord by just scraping back and forth with your knife so you get a jagged rough cut so that the cord has a chance to clot



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tractormiallis

04-14-2007 20:29:15




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
The bull bled to death, not the cow.



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Jerry/MT

04-14-2007 20:26:05




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Out here, most bull calves are turned into steers at branding which occurs when the oldest calves are around 2-3 months old.
I helped a friend during a castration of a 1-1/2 year old bull and he had a vet do the deed. You have to have a large castrater for the bigger animals and it has a device on it that clamps and crushes the artery so that it clots faster. You have to hold it clamped on each side for about a minute. In the bigger bulls, the artery is relativelylarge and they can bleed out if you don't get the artery clotted.

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caterpillar guy

04-14-2007 20:21:06




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 Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
Somebody screwed up big time. That should not have caused the animal to bleed to death. It would be less stress on the animal to do it as a calf. There several ways to casterate a bull ,cut them, use a rubber cheerio, or clamp. I prefer to use the cheerio as a calf. I have done all 3 on a bull of the size mentioned I"ve clamped. If the bull had been caught right away after it died or before,it could have been butchered for the meat.

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cowman1

04-14-2007 20:19:14




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 I got a question?? Re: cattle question in reply to tractormiallis, 04-14-2007 20:02:30  
How is it he cut the bull and the cow bled to death?? I dont get the connection here??



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