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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut rocks

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old

04-13-2007 14:08:04




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I have an area where I have dug off and on over the years to open up a spring on my place. I have a lot of big rocks as in 2-3 foot in diameter. I would like to figure out how to square them up some to use along the edge of my driveway and then back fill with dirt to raise up the yard area. So now with out buying expense saws etc. Do any of you guy have ideas of how to cut them. There lime stone and sand stone. On the sand stone I'm thinking maybe my pressure washer but not sure on the others. Note I said with out spending much if any money, I don't have it to spare.
Thanks
By the way there big enough the only way they will be moved is with a tractor and the backhoe/loader

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Turke Bros. Farms

04-14-2007 06:45:51




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
hey Old, How about prisioners...they do that for a living you know. Try renting a hand held concrete saw from your local rental shop, come up with some way of holding devise so the rocks dont move on you. you will get very desirable results. keep us posted.



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brad siegmund

04-14-2007 04:09:05




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
maine fordson is right. I've split some stones and the hammer drill/feather and wedge technique works like magic. you can even split along curved lines I'm told although never needed to try it.I built a stone barn(>400 ton).Use carbide tipped mason bits(get 2 or 3 and air cool them between holes and they will last longer. Be ready to move when that thing splits! Call Trow and Holden or Granite City Tool Co.for stuff.

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Catskill Pete

04-13-2007 20:57:58




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
You may already own a pretty good tool for drilling the holes and not realize it. If you have an air chisel with the pointed bit, and most of them have one with it, it drills holes in concrete and stone suprisingly well. I tried mine in my dairy barn on a stanchion pipe one day was amazed at how well it worked. I have used it on several projects since then. One note however you will POSITIVELY want eye protection when you use it.

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David in SC

04-13-2007 18:57:42




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Hey Old,
I used the Dex-Pan with great success. The problem is you have to drill large holes to pour it into. That is not cheap if you don't have the tools. A great alternative that I used was a sledgehammer and railroad spikes. If you can locate a vein in sedimentary rock and get some spikes started, sometime you can break them with a little effort. Be sure to wear goggles and have them well into the rock before you lay into them with a good pound.

Good luck,
David in SC

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Sid

04-13-2007 18:31:45




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 Hey old another idea in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
You can build a fire on a rock and it will split. I have seen some that would have pretty straight splits. It will at least make them smaller and easier to handle.



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RayP(MI)

04-13-2007 18:27:58




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Over the years, we"ve had a few young fellows show up with a beat up old pickup truck, and ask permission to take rocks from rock piles. They take selected rocks, and after careful inspection, whack them once or twice with a 5 to 10# sledge. Rock usually splits cleanly. Sledge usually has a wedge shaped head on it. they apparently learn to read the grain in the rock, and are very good at getting nice flat surfaces. They are sold to building suppliers, for building homes, etc.

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Sid

04-13-2007 18:07:39




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
As I understand it, years ago they would drill a series of holes and drive wooden dowels into them. I don't remember what kind of wood it was but I think it was willow. The dowels would have to be dry. After driving them in the holes they would pour water on them and the swelling would split the rock. This was used to cut away banks to build highways.



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RMinVa

04-13-2007 17:59:08




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
I've seen stone buildings and bridges in my area that were built by slaves. Have also seen the tools they used but never seen them used. This rock was cut out of the Staunton river just below Long Island Va.

I've seen the notches they made in a line along the rock. It's a slight V shape notch. They would cut pieces of wood and shape the end to fit the notch in the rock and make it a little over size. They would dry the wood stake with heat/fire to shrink the wood. Once dried they would drive the V shap stake in the notches and the river water would swell the wood and the rock would break along the notches. It's some beautiful work.

There's one arch bridge over a creek about 75 yards from the river and then there's the bridge that crossed the river. The big bridge has a rock ramp and the pillows is all that's left. Our southern troops burned that bridge when leaving Appomattox. They didn't know the surrender had been signed. They had orders to burn every bridge they crossed. There's also a rock road from the bridge to the houses on the Campbell Co. side which is about 1 mile from the river.

Just thought I'd throw in a little history of how it was done back then. And I'm sure different type of rock is done different ways. This is all brown rock and seems to break straight. Only place I've seen rock like this is in the river bed.

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Walt Davies

04-13-2007 17:51:36




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Rock drill and wedges.
Walt



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IHC Red

04-13-2007 16:21:17




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Years back immigrants had a technique for squaring off stones. All I know of it is that it involved having part of the stone buried in the ground and taking advantage of the differing temperatures between the buried part and the exposed parts. They may have also used special hammers, wedges, etc.

It would be great to have and preserve this "art" of the pioneers.

third party image

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rrlund

04-13-2007 16:09:06




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Won't your hoe bust them up if you whack them?



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old

04-13-2007 19:26:44




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to rrlund, 04-13-2007 16:09:06  
Only to a point. Look in my web site and then look at the back hoe I use. Its on a 1950 8N ford so its very limited as to waht it will and will not do. The back hoe is also form around the same year give or take a few years. The pins are getting bad and if I try to hit much I have big problems with brakeing parts on it that can not be found because the company is no more



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135 Fan

04-13-2007 17:42:37




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to rrlund, 04-13-2007 16:09:06  
That's a good way to wreck a hoe or bend a cylinder. Hoes are for digging, not pounding. A concrete breaker on a hoe or bobcat might work and could be rented. Dave



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ironsales

04-13-2007 14:21:21




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
dynamite



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old

04-13-2007 14:23:20




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to ironsales, 04-13-2007 14:21:21  
Wish you could still buy that stuff I started doing the rock moveing 20 plus years ago and used it then but now days you can no longer buy it or there would be a lot more rocks to move/cut



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Vito

04-13-2007 14:17:47




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to old, 04-13-2007 14:08:04  
Try feather and wedges.



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Gerald J.

04-13-2007 15:59:08




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 Re: O/T, Any body have a cheap easy way to cut roc in reply to Vito, 04-13-2007 14:17:47  
third party image

Google "feathers and wedges", there will be many hits. One sticks out:



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Maine Fordson

04-13-2007 15:34:53




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 Re: Cutting Stone in reply to Vito, 04-13-2007 14:17:47  
I'm with Vito. Doesn't matter whether you call them feathers and wedges, pins and feathers, or shims and wedges -- it's the same system.

What you do, is snap a chalk line along where you want the stone to break, and then drill a hole about 2 or 3 inches deep every 3 or 4 inches. You can use either an old-fashioned star drill and a hand-drilling hammer (looks like a small sledgehammer with a short handle), or a pneumatic driver with a star bit.

When you have a line of holes completed, put the feathers/shims parallel to the line you chalked and insert the pins/wedges. Now just go along the line and tap -- just tap it, don't hit it hard -- each one in succession. When you get to the end, go back to the beginning and tap each one again. As you are doing this, the internal pressure is building up, and once it exceeds the capacity of that rock to hold together, that rock will give a snap and break right along the line of holes. Then pick up your iron pieces and start again.

There is also a product on the market called Dex-pan; once you have the holes drilled, you simply pour the Dex-pan in the holes. When exposed to air, the Dex-pan starts to expand, and eventually will snap the rock open like the pins and feathers do. Unlike iron tools, however, it's not re-usable.

The feathers and wedges/pins and feathers (or whatever you want to call them) come in different sizes; I would get the smallest diameter that will still accomplish your purpose. (It's easier to drill a small hole than a big one).

We have been using this technique on Maine granite for decades, and if it'll split eastern granite, that ol' sandstone should be a pushover.

Feel free to write with any questions.

-- Maine Fordson

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