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STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS

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ironsales

04-04-2007 06:49:35




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I am thinking about going into business for myself, wanting to do all types of construction, mainly dirt work and metal buildinga and such, do you guys have any suggestions for me.




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hbarnhardt

04-04-2007 17:44:57




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Read and Re-read "Billy of NY". This guy knows what he is talking about, and obviously his post is sincere with a desire to assist in your endeavors. Fact is I printed this whole thread in order to make sure my son and partner reads "Billy of NY"'s post.



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Billy NY

04-05-2007 12:43:02




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to hbarnhardt, 04-04-2007 17:44:57  
That's a real nice thing you said there, thank you. Got a little longer than it should have, but in good faith and with the intent to be of some genuine help based on some of the things I've learned so far. That learning curve seems perpetual, you always realize that just when you think you have seen it all, it's really just the tip of the iceberg in this business.



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Walt Davies

04-04-2007 16:27:42




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Something not mentioned check all local and state and federal laws that pertain to what you are doing "Be a good lawyer" I have a small summer business of mowing and rotor tilling around the local area so when i got a call from a gal who needed a lawn around a house tilled I thought that sounds good. she said that she was a licensed Landscaper so i went to work for her and when i finished the job she shorted me $50 bucks the work. I called the landscape board and found out two things she wasn't licensed and I needed a landscaping license just to till a lawn. BUMMER.
Almost cost me $2000 in fines but they just gave me a warning. Like I said check your local and state laws they can be something else at times.
Walt PS I bet there are a lot of landscapers around here who looking for a licensed person to just ill a lawn for them or do a little scraper work and I know people like are not going to get that license just to do a job now and then.

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Turke Bros. Farms

04-04-2007 12:01:06




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
I did it for 15yrs. got to be a fairly good sized company. 3 gravel trains on the road, 2 dozers , backhoe, loader,low boy, and 3 other dump trucks and company vehicles. When the work slowed down in Michigan, i had to get rid of people and equipment, no money to support those kind of bills. And it got harder and harder to make a dollar, beleive me I tried! It seemed that you were spending $4000.00 to make $5000.00. And then they would sit on it for 2 months, that ties up alot of operating capital. That and depending on your employees, they would be hungry in the early spring...as you load down with work, then in a couple months you are pulling your hair out trying to get them to come to work or they are laying down on you. My suggestion is to find a business that you and your wife can do. The more you depend on others the worst off it gets. DTURKE

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rrlund

04-04-2007 11:39:51




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
My brother is in the excavating business. Went to school to learn to run the stuff to start with. Then he worked for somebody else for a few years amd made a name for himself. I'd say from his experience,just do quility work. Go above and beyond with good equipment,prompt service and fair prices. Make sure you clean up your messes. Don't leave things rutted and rough looking. The less work the customer has to do after you leave,the more popular you will be. He's busy as a school boy stomping ants,despite how bad things are here in Michigan right now.

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Mike M

04-04-2007 10:28:54




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Here's my take on it. Do you have a spouse ? If you do and you can get health insurance from their job do it. Then go ahead and do your thing on the side and CASH only and don't tell big brother about it and you will be way farther ahead.



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Keep it Honest

04-04-2007 15:01:24




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Mike M, 04-04-2007 10:28:54  
Big Brother, the Banker and the Lord can add. The tax man can take your stuff. The banker won't believe you because you said you made XXXX dollars on the day you need a loan for equipment or capital to finish a job. The Lord may say "I know you not" on the BIG DAY. Keeping it honest means all the way around. I grew up watching many old farmers work hard so it appeared they made no income then they complained for the last 20 years of their life because someone else got a bigger retirement or social security check. If you report your earnings and take your deductions you don't have to worry, if you take your deductions and don't report the income you are kidding yourself and will never grow to the size that will give you long term stability. You must be thinking small, because if you are a subcontractor you will always be paid by check so the contractor can write it off. To most people today Cash is a dead guy who sang good ballads. Someone else can have the soap box now.

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Mike M

04-05-2007 05:38:05




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Keep it Honest, 04-04-2007 15:01:24  
Keep it honest ? Ya just like our law makes do !!! LOL



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glennster

04-04-2007 10:01:14




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
i have several business that i started myself. find a niche that needs service and run a fair and honest business, word will spread fast. at the very least form an s corporation or an llc, a good accountant can set it up. get insurance along with a general liability umbrella policy. you do not personally want to be the target of a lawsuit. biggest problems i have with contractors is they do not answer your calls, and never show up when they are supposed to. here is an idea for you for excavating. friend of mine is a project manager for a large construction company. they use a subcontractor that has a mini excavator with retractable tracks, he can get thru a standard 36" doorway with the machine when its fully retracted. this guy is always busy.

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Chad Franke

04-04-2007 09:59:11




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 Work for yourself, not the bank in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
My number one comment would be, if you can't afford to buy it, don't. If you finance the business, you don't own it, the bank does. You work for them if you owe them money. Get to know a rental place, work a deal, and be loyal. Buy when you can afford it after you figure out what equipment will make you money. Keep records of all jobs, KNOW what makes you money and what doesn't. Fancy pickups don't do anything but cost money, a cheap, dependable old one ton will out earn a brand new XXXX diesel one ton, same with equipment.

Do good work, admit and fix mistakes. Pay and treat your employees well. Give your customers value, dirt work is dirt work, but if you do it with a smile, quickly, honestly, and for a fair price, they will value the experience, as well as the finished product. Keep everything in writing, don't do verbal quotes, if the job changes, do a contract addition.

In all jobs, think what you would want as a customer, and exceed that. Don't short pay yourself, if the person won't pay what the job is worth, neither one of you will be happy.

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Billy NY

04-04-2007 09:53:04




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
There are some important things to consider and do, but if you put the work into it, stay organized and use good common sense, it can be rewarding after you have built a business.

In the beginning, depending on start up resources, you may have to wear many hats, you need to research things like insurance, narrow a scope of work that you can commit to and complete, based on your ability as a contractor, do not over extend yourself into too many jobs or jobs that are beyond your scope, it's nothing but trouble and I've seen some large subcontractors get in serious trouble, because they are in over their head by taking too much work or jobs that are too large for them to handle. There are certain markets or areas of work to target, never bite off more than you can chew.

I'm not sure what your background is and what level of experience you have, don't be afraid to learn things wherever you can, some community colleges or other educational places can provide you knowledge on things that can and will benefit you, not every successful business person is a college grad, but courses on accounting, estimating, business practice, contract law, dispute resolution and many other related subjects are very beneficial to becoming a savvy business person, especially in the construction industry. In todays construction industry, you need to excel, there is nothing worse than a lousy sub on a job, I had a sub on a state job that I was a const. mgr. on, he did excavation and paving, but unbeknownst to me, did not know how to read drawings, or use an optical level for setting grades, he also thought he could outsmart me, by using substandard materials etc. etc. I brought an instrument in and set grades myself, which really p$ssed me off, his work was terrible, and unaccepable, when it was all said and done, I fried his @ss on the job, rejected hundreds of tons of asphalt, and work in place after performing tests and checking the specs, also executed emergency change orders with another sub, backcharged his contract, he could not even follow a grade with the paving and led the water right into a valve vault, causing damage to new work just put in place. The kids were not bad and I tried to explain to them and help, which I did by setting grades and taking liability for it, told them to learn how to read drawings, and use an instrument, he brings one in one day and says you mean one of these ? Yes I said, but no friggin tripod, just the darned instrument, absolutely useless, I should have defaulted them on failure to perform, but that is another mess, in short, NEVER be this guy on a job no matter what !!! This sub should have never made it past the pre-qualification process, but was in place prior to us taking the emergency contract on this job that had stalled due to incompetence, and once they have a contract on a public job, there are procedures for default, I regret not terminating them immediately, my reputation was at stake here, all due to a lousy sub.

Earthwork is a tough trade to make a good profit, you need to know what you are doing, how to plan a job so it is profitable, before you submit a bid or a proposal to an owner or customer. I would establish a relationship with a rental house and set up through them for equipment needed for a job, big payments on expensive equipment is a tough burden to place on yourself in the beginning, same is true with older used equipment which is still costly to buy, maintain and repair, you take a job with a tough schedule, add some bad weather and downtime for repairs, you are in over your head. Using rental equipment and having it priced into a job, or just have an owner pay direct for the period of rental you need is a smart move. Fortunatel I can do this with a rental house I am friendly with, and they don't require insurance on the equipment prvided from me, it's covered another way from them, I still have to use care, and if I see it's necessary will get additional insurance, depends on the job. Insurance is important and costly, but theres is no other way. Other rental houses will need you to have at least a $1 million dollar policy in place, maybe more depends on the rental house, but you have to have them additionally insured. Concrete work, especially finished slabs is a specialty, if you are not capable in house, use a quality subcontractor, your work is your reputation and finishes reflect that vividly to an owner, whom you want to give you good references on every job. So if you are not capable of a trade, use a good sub until you are capable in house, this applies to all trades, it's your rep ultimately. Metal buildings, I can't really comment on those, my experience is in heavy construction, constuction management, general contracting and specialty subcontracting, those are another arena for me, but common sense still applies, use a good manufacturer, and erector, pay attention to details and resolve problems immediately, they only grow bigger if you don't.

There are so many things that come to mind about this business, but it's a simple premise, you go after the work, get the work, practice accurate accounting-estimating and take work that is profitable, then complete the work and close the job out completely, all details and punchlist work inclusive, get paid and move on to the next one.

You will need to learn about contracts, how to interpret or define a scope of work, even in the private sector for residential or light commercial work such as site work and metal buildings. You are on the job to provide specified work under certain conditions. Ex. You take a site job and hit rock, your contract price reflects non rock soil condtions only, you just loss your @ss ! It's important to cover unforseen conditions, include a unit price for rock excavation or indemnify yourself (hold harmless) from rock excavation if you are not capable or equipped to do it and it turns up. On big jobs they do test borings and provide information up front, looks great on paper, but even then, with up front documents/information, contractors can and will get into disputes/claims over excessive amounts of unforseen conditions above their base contract. Water is another one, rock excavation and dewatering is very costly, this and these are just 2 examples. Don't be discouraged, just make sure you cover your proverbial behind when doing site work, leave nothing for granted, either provide an alternate number for extra or more difficult work than anticipated or omit it from your contract, leaving it undefined is a big mistake that can cost you heavily.

Important things to remember:

1.) Scope of work: go after work that makes sense, that you are qualified to do after careful consideration of the job. You obviously cannot do work that has bidders requirements like a performance bond if you can't get bonded, as an example. This applies to larger companies and jobs, smaller work that pays well is much better than large slow paying jobs anyways. Qualify yourself for a potential job before you agree to it is the point here. Make sure the payment and contract terms are acceptable and the the owner pays, because getting paid in this business can be a nightmare and can ruin a business quickly. There are many scenarios to consider, figure what works best for you. I do a lot of work for owners and have them pay direct for many things like rental equipment or materials, my profits are in the labor. I can do it hourly (time and material) or lump sum. Lump sum makes an owner more comfortable knowing he has a guaranteed max. price, vs. keeping track of a job set up by the hour. Additional work above the base bid in a lump sum is defined as a change order, if an owner requests addtional work, make sure your contract has unit prices for additional work, these can be very profitable additions to the base bid. If you cannot put a price on the work, due to it being odd or too difficult to identify costs, hourly is best for a contractor, but you still need to answer to the owner who is paying so keep it honest and give the owner a fair shake by being productive as possible. Agree to the hours DAILY, have them sign a work ticket for billing later. For lump sum you need to know up front how long a job will take you + a cushion + all overhead + general conditions, direct/indirect costs + %10 to %20 profit, you can't be successfull and lose money on jobs. Know what works for you and the owner and agree to it via a subcontract agreement, perform the work dilegently, get paid and move on. Someone I know I'll do this for, (they pay direct on material/rentals) to save a few $$ on mark up there, it's gotten me a lot of work and kept me from forking out $$ only to wait for an owner to pay on job, and if he's late paying so are you, and that tarnishes your rep with supply houses, without them you are nothing, so accounting and playing it smart here is very important. I still make a profit, it's in the labor, which includes things like insurance, additional labor (employees if needed) my benefits etc. The big guys can front $$ and wait to get paid but a small guy can get buried quick, remember that. I have them pay direct instead of asking for $$ up front, that way they know its honest, some guys take $$ and don't show up and become a problem to an owner, don't be that guy ! Your reputation is the single most important thing in this business, do what you say you will do, show up on time, and solve problems quickly, you will shine above many others who do not take their work seriously. Deadlines must be met, there will be problems on every job, you do your best to navigate the curves, and if a deadline is affected, let them know up front if you can project that there is going to be a change, don't wait until it passes.

2.) Estimating and accounting, know these well and become an expert at both. Details are important here. You start getting several jobs going you need to know how each is doing with cash flow, based on your estimate, so you can monitor and correct things immediately. If you lose on one job but another is a home run, identify this and try and improve the bad one and make damn sure the good one finishes that way. Overall they might balance each other out or break even which is better than a loss. I hate to say it but it is very possible to happen, it's not an easy business if you do not pay attention to each job individually, you have no idea what is going on as a whole, which means you do not know how your business is doing overall, so many subcintractors wing it to find out after its too late they are in the hole. You have to be diligent and attentive to each job, tracking costs, problems etc. Recognize each one seperately or you will have no clue as to what is going on.

3.) On a lump sum job, if things go wrong, stop the clock, you only lose if you expend your labor foolishly, I've had to do it more than once to save a job, if I allowed things to continue, it would have been a loss, you only have so many hours in the job, they have to be used productively, at first sign of trouble, do the best you can to correct the problem, if it means firing a crew or a sub or whatever works do it no questions asked, once you have figured a solution, take action. Problems on jobs grow by leaps and bounds

4.) Logic: every contractor has to use logic on how they will perform the work, and uses sound logic in the preparation of the bid, or proposal. Know or define production rates, maintain historical data on things that go well or do not go so well on a job, you are building this one, to do better on the next one. In site work, choice of equipment, soil condtions, time of the year, weather and many other things can dictate costs, make sure you plan the job effectively and identify all costs before placing a bid or submitting a proposal. Also include cushion or margin for error, check your math,so many times a mathmatical error costs a sub a large amount of money,it happens, they call it a gross mathmatical error on public bids and many bids are withdrawn when an error is found.

5.) Organization: you must stay highly organized in all aspects of this business, from the office, accounting, document control to tools equipment, houskeeping on a job site, keep everything you do organized, because when things get chaotic, at least you still are organized and have much more effective control than not.

6.)Record keeping: on big jobs we write a daily report of manpower, weather conditions, equuipment on site, description of work, delays/problems, area of work by location etc. Ex. I will keep track of how many loads of material leave the site on a daily basis, how many arrive, quantified. If you ever have a claim or dispute,or other legal problem on a job, it's important. A regularly used uniform business document can hold water in court, ( in this business you never want to go to court, but it happens ) also provides historical data that can benefit your business, I highly recommend the practice.


7.) Business/Work ethics: You are in business, you depend on it to put food on the table, so make sure you follow good honest practices. Gouging or defrauding people is criminal, price your jobs so you are covered, if a market is too competitive, your time might be better spent in another area, be versatile to maintain a market that keeps you busy, with a decent profit. As a business owner you have to meet your commitments, unlike an employee that goes home when the workday is done, in the beginning it may take a lot of hours, more than working for someone. When it comes time to hire employees, be prepared to pay the right person, make sure the jobs provide the cash flow for payroll. Five dollar an hour freddy will wreck your equipment, tarnish your rep, no show, show up late, get paid one day and not show up the next etc. etc. You need good qualified dedicated help, you have to pay, if you take a job that can't pay enough for good help it's not worth it, I'd rather work alone at slower pace than deal with idiots.

8.) Safety - you must practice safe performance of your work, at all times. Educate yourself, practice it, assess risky situations and do not proceed in haste, accidents are injurious, deadly and costly, it is a no win situation. Establish a safety protocol for your company, always improve on it and NEVER deviate from it.

9.) Seasonal work: be prepared for the off season financially and mentally, use the time to do off season work or prepare for it. Use the time to market new work, repair tools equipment for the next season. This applies if the annual inclement weather affects the work you do. Also a good reason not to have expensive equipment with big payments sitting in the yard. Also a good time to re-build anything you own and have it ready for the next season.

I'm rained out today so I had a little time, it's a bit lengthy so I hope I have not annoyed anyone, I do like to help.

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CBBC

04-04-2007 09:37:07




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Read "The E-Myth" buy Michael Gerber. It's an easy read and basically an advertisement for his consulting / business coaching services. But it points out lots of issues which you may not have thought about. Lots of other good business books also.

Good luck, Grant



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Midwest redneck

04-04-2007 09:26:21




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
1. get insurance.

2. Be good to your employees or they WILL rip you off and put you under.



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Gus

04-04-2007 09:08:09




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Be honest and fair with your customers and yourself. Admit and fix your mistakes. Don"t work too cheap. All the rest of the advice here is good. Except the union part. I went on my own 30 years ago and have never regretted it. Even in bad times. Good luck, Gus.



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Walt Davies

04-04-2007 08:46:34




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Starting a business on a BUDGET is one good way to throw good money down the drain. Also you will be working long hours at low pay for sometime before you get it off the ground. I would look at it very seriously and talk it over with the wife because its a family thing that will include everyone. If you get hurt or sick you will need someone you can trust to take over. Sometimes it pays to have a partner but you better be sure that its a partner you can trust.
All in all its a good thing to do if you can pull it off and make it work and will be well worth the hard work but watch out because there are many, many pitfalls. Walt

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Bus Driver

04-04-2007 08:24:35




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Working capital is as important as tools and trucks.



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Jim.UT

04-04-2007 08:21:27




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Pay off as much debt as you can before launching a business. Getting a new business started up is going to require a fair amount of debt to cover cash flow needs. If you start out already halfway down the debt hole, you bottom out quicker.

Be prepared to live very frugally until the business gets a good foothold.



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hbarnhardt

04-04-2007 08:19:58




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
I have been in the business you are contemplating
entering since 1981. Previously I represented a major pharmaceutical company, highly paid, highly respected, and extremely pressurized. After ten years, the next 11 years were awful to say the least. The point here is that being in business for yourself is satisfying, rewarding, and challenging. Everything in this field depends , as most occupations do, the economy. We have had years where we could not take all the work offered, and we have had years we didn't make enough to pay Insurance. Blanket coverage with Workmans Comp. runs a little ofer 6000.00/year. We operate on the basis of "Don't buy equipment until you can afford to pay for it." Of course when you start out most have to have financing .
If you go into dirtwork, the skid loader is your best friend. With all the attachments available for rent you can take on most everything in the dirt work. We prefer the Bobcat because we have never (since the 90's spent a penny on repairs. They are rock solid. (No I have no financial interest in Bobcat or affiliates.) I'd say "selling" yourself is the most difficult part of the business. Sorry to be so long winded. Good Luck.

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Randall Kollmeyer

04-04-2007 08:18:49




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
When you go into business for yourself you'll have twice the headaches as opposed to working for someone else. You'll also reap twice the rewards. I always believed in this: NO RISKY, NO MAKEY.



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benny2

04-04-2007 08:01:08




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 Make sure you Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SU in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Make sure you get to know your government well! The SBA is more than a loan agency! They supply 100s of info packs of great books very cheap or free. Get a SCORE rep from them for help. One of the MOST important items learn what a proper business plan is and make it long before you cut dirt or install a building! Construction businesses just like restaurants have the highest rate of failure. Not because of lack of hard work but the lack of business manament.

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big red fred

04-04-2007 08:00:01




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Use Union Labor , THe oppertunity are greater. you don`t have to baby set employes , Their skill levals are higher and your prophits will be grater..... DON~T RUN A SCAB OUTFIT



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Howard H.

04-04-2007 11:44:43




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to big red fred, 04-04-2007 08:00:01  

A friend of mine was running a pipeline project near here when the union guys left their calling card.

Sugar in the diesel tanks on several pieces of large Cat equipment and sand in the hydraulics...

Really a shining example to be proud of in free enterprise America.

I think of that every time I see a union label or reference to how great unions are...

Howard H.



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Billy NY

04-05-2007 09:39:20




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Howard H., 04-04-2007 11:44:43  
Again, I hate the subject, but I've dealt with these issues, pickets, harrassment, bitter arguments etc. Those are cowardly criminals, that do this, they can't face you, they can't get to the person who makes the decisions and be sucessful at what they are selling, which is union labor as in this case. They certainly don't want to work if they do something like that, who would hire people that do this ? So they sabotage equipment instead. Again, its people who make the conscious decision to be malicioius and sabotage a contractors equipment because they failed to negotiate or even attempted to make a deal. Those people are criminals and hurt their own cause. If you cave into their bullying you are making a mistake, you have to play the game and be the first one to initiate contact, knowing their weasels fight with sugar and sand when they don't get their way. You are not taking work from them, they take it from themselves when they do things like this.

When this happens on a site, someone dropped the ball way before the job got started, it can be avoided and you can prepare for it if it's likely to happen, which most contractors already know up front. Seasoned contractors know where union territories exist, and if they don't deal with the issue before the job is even awarded, it's destined for problems, I get you, you get me, repeat..... no win situation. It's hard to believe a large contractor would mobilize onto a site and be dumfounded when the union pressures them. Someone made the decision before the job started and took the risk, knowing bad guys are notorious for doing these things since before many of us were even born. It's criminal, but that does not stop them, so play the game smart up front or it's gonna happen because bad guys are out there and have no conscience about what they do.

Not all unions and union trades are like this, some great people are and were union members who work hard for a company, and have served this country and are veterans.

You remember Jimmy Braddock the boxer from the 30's, he was a union member of the local #825 operating engineers on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge project and I had laborers who worked with him on that job, who were old timers then but could still outwork people half their age. He was also an army veteran of world war II and an outstanding citizen

I've been on jobs where the 825 O.E. was pressuring contractors and when I was younger, I tried numerous times to get into that same union, having passed the tests on equipment at their school, as well as local 14 O.E. school, proved at both schools I was capable of working for contractor immediately, but to no avail. B.A.'s playing favorites and I was not on the list. I have friends with a crane service whose entire family is 825 and they are an outstanding company and a good honest family. I certainly did not go back to either of those union schools and vandalize their equipment because the B.A.'s were playing favorites, and I did not get in. I really wanted to be part of one of those unions, because I enjoyed the work as an operator, the pay and benefits and knew I could retire from there. We had 2 guys that were 825 where I worked one year and made double what I made + benefits, for the same work, kind ticked me off, but I stuck it out, and eventually I had to move on in my career which paid a lot better.

Just remember one thing, not all union members vandalize equipment, many of them are some of the most honorable, patriotic citzens in this country, just as much as any other hard working honest people who don't have a union label on their back. It's the people not the union/ non union labels that make the difference.

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Howard H.

04-06-2007 11:53:50




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Billy NY, 04-05-2007 09:39:20  

Hi Billy -

I really appreciate the response and the added perspective.

We don't have unions around here much at all - so all I know about them are a few stories like my friend's, the mob connections, Jimmy Hoffa and all that.

I've sort of grown up believing they are why the USA is losing the heart of all it's manufacturing to overseas workers.

It is nice to hear not all of them are like that.


Howard

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Billy NY

04-06-2007 13:08:35




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Howard H., 04-06-2007 11:53:50  
I've known some great people the unions, especially building trades, but within some of the unions, there have also been many cases of corruption and a lot of dishonorable things like embezzlement from benefit funds etc. There have been some bad people, just like the rest of the world. Some of the trade guys are hard working honest family guys who travel to work on these jobs, that are also very proud of their trades and union organization. It has been a pleasure to have known a lot of them.

I'm at a loss as to the manufacturing jobs we have lost, but when the labor costs so much less somewhere else, it just undermines the entire industry. I'm all for the best pay and benefits for a hard productive days work, but am no expert on what really drove the wedge between the union manufacturing trades and industry. Union was a great thing at the turn of the century when sweatshops were abundant, but in recent times maybe some got a little greedy and forgot what made the unions great. It broke down, and is a shame because of the comradery and skill level these guys had a reputation for. It's a shame no compromise ever worked to keep the big companies from going overseas, again it's something I know absolutely nothing about, except what we all see, made in china.


A lot of people used to ask me about behind the scenes things and organized crime/mob because of where I worked, and what I did. To be honest, don't believe what you hear, lot of myth and rumor out there. Although I have known or met some interesting people that I suppose you could say probably work behind the scenes, what they do is unbeknownst to most, they keep a super low profile, and if you do know anything of what they do or are involved in, you're probably involved at a business level, so you won't be having casual conversations about it if you know what is good for you. That is why I say a lot of what you hear is rumor. In NYC you learn to negotiate the curves a certain way, otherwise the road can be a lot more difficult to travel. Those guys behind the scenes, are far removed from the curves you may encounter, even if they might have built a few of them, they've been there for years.

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Walt Davies

04-04-2007 08:38:35




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to big red fred, 04-04-2007 08:00:01  
If your spelling and grammar is any proof of their ability I'd stay with the Scabs. My house was owned by a Union Carpenter when I bought it I'm still cleaning up the things he messed up. Walt



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big red fred

04-04-2007 16:23:24




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Walt Davies, 04-04-2007 08:38:35  
1Thing about it ,you have a union guy you don`t like you can send him back to the hall and get someone else .I`m looking at this from the workers side the way thins are right now ,we don`t need anymore contractors paying sub-standard wages and no benifits or retirement..... I guess you can blame most of B_S thats going on now on the TEXAS IDIOT OIL BARON setting in the oval office



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Billy NY

04-05-2007 09:59:59




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to big red fred, 04-04-2007 16:23:24  
You're absolutely right, you weed em out and get the guys that will work, rattle the business agents or delegates cage until you get what you want when it comes to hiring. I've had company crane operators from the 3 big crane outfits in N.Y.C. on site on most of my jobs, just about all of them were absolutely the best you could ask for on a job, quality people, but 1 or 2 were arrogant jerks, and when you get a person like that, they have to go. I don't care what the contract says or union agreement says, I'll find a way, get his money and get him off my site, the B.A. will know about it and or the crane outfit who they work for will know as well. I got rid of one guy who was the biggest pain in the @ss, he intentionally held up my job costing us thousands of dollars one day. Certified check, benefit stamps from his hall, in an envelope, got them myself at the hall, and told him to take the crane back to the yard in Brooklyn. Spoke to the crane outfit and that was that. Shut the job down to clear the time stipulated in the agreement and rehired the crane, with another operator. They were told never to send that guy to any of my sites ever again. Just like any other job, you weed out the slackers or jerks that don't perform or you are out of business if you don't.

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Billy NY

04-04-2007 10:50:37




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to Walt Davies, 04-04-2007 08:38:35  
I don't like commenting on Union vs.Non-Union issues, it's a nasty subject, but I can say I have done both,in Manhattan which is a union stronghold. I've dealt with both, there and on many many multi million dollar jobs elsewhere, I was also a teamster local #669 for 2 years right out of high school. I have supervised union ironworker crews of 40+ and 60+ on one large job, including operating engineers, laborers, glaziers, carpenters, also needed on my jobs.

What I will say, has nothing to do with union or non union. It has everything to do with the person doing the work. There are super talented union guys who are loyal to a company, or out of the hall beacause they like what they do, take pride in their work and want to keep working by not being counterproductive and hurting a company they are hired by. There are also guys out of the hall that are completely lame, incompetent, worthless and cannot perform productively. There are non union guys that are also very talented and highly productive as well as those who are worthless. Union or non union, it's the people that make the difference.

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Dig It

04-04-2007 08:11:37




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to big red fred, 04-04-2007 08:00:01  
I've had my own "scab outfit" for several decades now.

To the original poster, figure out how much money you will need to start and run this business. Then triple it. The main reason for construction business failure is lack of capital. As a newbie you will be expected to pay your suppliers in a very timely fashion and will be watched closer than companies that have been in business for a long time.

And the number one rule; Don't be afraid to collect your money. Many larger companies use small subs so they can string them along and tie up their capital instead of their own. In effect you are being used as a bank.

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two mile

04-04-2007 07:31:11




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
Sounds like you may be trying to start two businesses. Excavation and commercial construction. Ultimately the two are a good blend, but if you are just starting out, you will need additional investment capital that may be unnecessary. Until you have established what kind of cash flow you can generate, there will be a need to control costs. I would recommend that you select which of the two you are best at, establish some goals, then work to achieve them. Involving a CPA would be a good move also.

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Case Lady

04-04-2007 07:06:59




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
either get a good accounting program or a good accountant and use it/her/him. Hang in there, most businesses don't really show a good profit until after 3-5 years. I know yall have a little one on the way - check into health insurance costs, that can eat your lunch in that expense alone. As to the rest of it, Shug, pick something you like to do, you know how to do it and won't mind doing it from now on. Good luck. If you have any questions as far as the accounting stuff, ping me. Sarah

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Bob

04-04-2007 07:05:15




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 Re: STARTING MY OWN BUSINESS, ANY SUGGESTIONS in reply to ironsales, 04-04-2007 06:49:35  
1.) Good insurance.

2.) Good accountant.



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