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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T Science question about airplanes

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Fred Roberts

03-23-2007 21:52:17




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If two airplanes leave the airport at the same time one from San diego to NYC and the other one from New york city to san diego at the same speed which one will arive at its destination first? The one going to san diego will arive first because the earth is rotating under it. The one going toward New York will arrive later because the earth rotation is opposite.




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Walt Davies

03-24-2007 19:32:08




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
One day the guys in the shop were arguing over why its 20 miles farther going from Stockton, Ca to Seattle, WA than it is coming back.
One guy said its because you are going up hill and your tires slip a little going up to Seattle.
I ask "isn't Seattle at sea level and isn't Stockton only at 65 ft. above sea level."
The answer was " Yea! But I don't know what sea level is at Seattle."

Walt

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circus

03-24-2007 11:26:40




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
using that logic the SD to NY flight flies backwards.



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circus

03-24-2007 11:37:17




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to circus, 03-24-2007 11:26:40  
You also omitted the orbit around the sun, galaxy, cluster and cosmic expansion. Day or night.



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two mile

03-24-2007 09:34:37




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
That is what zulu time is for.



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Nebraska Cowman

03-24-2007 08:55:01




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
All things being eaqual they would crash over Kansas



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SDE

03-24-2007 08:25:23




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
If the distance is equal for both planes and the speed is the same, the time would be the same as well. The winds resistance would cause one plane to consume more fuel in order to maintain an equal air speed.



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Lou

03-24-2007 08:10:11




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
All aircraft use Grenich mean time, refered to as Zulu time. I dont think you can take the wind out of any aircraft equation, so the west to east flight would take less time in the majority of flights.



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KEB

03-24-2007 07:22:53




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
Remember, the atmosphere is also rotating with the earth, with means the effect of the earth's rotation can be ignored. The air and any airplanes in it are rotating at the same rate as the surface of the earth. People try to make these problems a lot more complicated than they really are.

Ignoring winds, and assuming identical aircraft and weather conditions, travel time would be exactly the same regardless of direction. Clock time will change becasue you cross multiple time zones. In practice, in North America west to east flights are generally faster than east to west becasue the jet stream helps in one direction and hinders in the other.

Keith

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OH Boy

03-24-2007 05:59:52




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 Do the same principles apply to tractors? in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
I am certain my tractor plows faster west to east than it does east to west!



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RayP(MI)

03-24-2007 16:47:34




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 Re: Do the same principles apply to tractors? in reply to OH Boy, 03-24-2007 05:59:52  
Yeah, but it"s uphill both ways!



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MarkB_MI

03-24-2007 05:30:00




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
Anyone who flies regularly, either commercial airlines or private light planes, will tell you that flying west to east is faster than east to west. That's because the prevailing winds are out of the west. For a commercial airliner, the jet stream may add or substract a hundred knots to the aircraft's ground speed. So a flight from the east coast to the west coast takes about an hour longer than a flight in the opposite direction.

Light aircraft normally don't fly high enough to enter the jet stream, but they are affected by westerly winds at lower altitudes. Because light planes are slower than the airliners, the effect of headwinds and tailwinds is greater on light planes than it is on jets.

Wikipedia has a good article on the jet stream, link below. The westerly winds are related to the earth's rotation, but not how you might think. It has to do with how winds from the tropic to arctic regions are affected by the Coriolis effect.

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Kevin Bismark

03-24-2007 21:12:42




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to MarkB_MI, 03-24-2007 05:30:00  
Yup, the jet stream sure makes a difference, on the way to Japan last December we had ground speed of about 600 on the way back was a little over 700, it was 75 degrees at Narita when we left and had snow on the ground when I got home with freezing rain should have stayed over in the Philippines, the winters are pretty mild there



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RAB

03-24-2007 04:08:56




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
OK a few thoughts.

Airplane speed is usually measured in "ground speed"?

At the equator, the earth is moving (rotating) at about a 1000mph. They don"t get 1000mph winds?

Wouldn"t you be able to fly round the earth in a day, simply by hanging up there and waiting for the earth to move? That might mean that a hot air ballon is supersonic?

Atmosperic changes do not occur cyclically at 24 intervals. Like the weather from the other side of the world (at your lattitude of course!).

Doesn"t happen does it?

These few simple observations (and a lot more possibilities) might help you to answer your own question.

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4010guy

03-24-2007 03:12:16




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
The san diego plain would land 3 hours earlier



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Joe(TX)

03-24-2007 02:47:49




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
If you are talking ground speed, There would be no differance. All that other stuff is not relative then.



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Blue3992 (N Illinois)

03-24-2007 02:19:18




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
No, that's not true. It's all about "frame of reference." Its a basic physics concept, look it up if you get a chance.

Actually though, I think the San Diego to NY flight will get their quicker becasue the winds generally blow from west to east, so they would have a tailwind, while the NY to San Diego flight would have to battle headwinds.



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jeffcat

03-24-2007 00:35:51




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
Just remembere that the earth is about 24,000 miles around. The rotation is 24 hours. IF you could jump up straight and air, gravity, and all of that other stuff didn't work. You would be standin still at 1000 miles per hour. Look at the time zones. About 1000 miles across. Think about it. Jeffcat



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Dug G.

03-23-2007 23:56:12




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
What if the planes do not respond to local traffic control? They're shot down, and the crash area is cleaned up with tractors/dozers. Now it kinda makes since to be on the site...



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farmerjohninpa

03-23-2007 22:16:39




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
no ,,if no head or tail winds involved,and the air speed and flight path distance are exact in miles and in elevation, they will both take the same amount of time to swap positions.

if ya don`t believe me,,ask yourself this question: "what do i do, if i do not know what to do?"



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flying belgian

03-24-2007 06:34:08




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to farmerjohninpa, 03-23-2007 22:16:39  
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody there, does it make a noise?



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RP3

03-24-2007 18:14:18




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to flying belgian, 03-24-2007 06:34:08  
If a man makes a decision in the forest and his wife isn't there, is he still wrong?



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tractorhead

03-24-2007 12:55:46




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to flying belgian, 03-24-2007 06:34:08  
the tree does not make a noise...it makes sound waves it takes ears to convert the waves to noise.....



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Butch 1 cow

03-23-2007 22:15:34




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 Re: O/T Science question about airplanes in reply to Fred Roberts, 03-23-2007 21:52:17  
I could'nt live another day not knowing that.



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