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Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut?

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hillbillyOH

03-14-2007 04:53:53




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Yesterday while I was out tinkering with our Allis C, I noticed that the kid next-door had taken out his father's rented bobcat and was carrying other kids around in the bucket.

They're all probably 7th or 8th graders, so they're not babies. But I had a real sense of dread watching him fly up and down the driveway, raising and lowering the bucket with another kid in it.

I didn't go over there and I didn't say anything, but now I'm wondering if I should have.

Do you get involved in things like this?

On the one hand, I feel like it's none of my business. On the other hand, I feel like it's my responsibility as an adult to intervene.

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Dug

03-15-2007 19:34:04




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Follow buickanddeere's advice below.



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buickanddeere

03-14-2007 21:54:11




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Delievery is 90% and message is 10%. Being a little embarassed to have to share such info with the Father will go farther than yelling about his idiot kid.



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NC Wayne

03-14-2007 19:42:13




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
I'd have gotten involved and told them to stop as well as telling the father as soon as possible. Hopefully he would have sense enough to not necessarily punish them but to at least educate them of the dangers...if he knew them himself....Anyone that has had a skidsteer tip over forward with them, or seen it happen, will automatically understand the dangers involved and ovbiously these kids were oblivious to the dangers. If one of the kids were hurt or killed because I did nothing I couldn't live with myself but if had at least tried to stop them then my conscience would at least be clear.

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Ga Jack

03-14-2007 17:57:07




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Hillbilly,
Some time its right to get involved. This would be one of those times.
I would bet his dad would not allow this, The dad should be informed. Remember, the life you save could be one of these kids. Kids at that age all think they will live forever and nothing can go wrong. jackie



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oldcraneguy

03-14-2007 17:22:07




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
I think I might have wondered over and told the kid that his playin around was just too dangerous to ignore but if he parked it now I wouldnt feel it nessesary rat him out... just my thoughts



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135 Fan

03-14-2007 16:43:24




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
If you get along with the neighbors, you should mention it. If they saw your kids doing something dangerous, you'ld want them to intervene. Bobcats can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. If it had hydraulic self leveling it could have dumped them out very easily as it only tilts forward when lifting and doesn't tilt back when lowering. The neighbor would have been mad at you for not doing anything if an accident occured. Luckily nothing happened but could have. Dave

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landlord7012

03-14-2007 15:46:24




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
If it was just the kid driving alone (safely)I'd wait until the old man came home and let him know (non-judgementally) what I saw. With the kids in the bucket I would have sprinted over to them and stopped it immediately, grab the keys if necessary.

If either the kids or old man objected I'd tell them "if you are going to hurt yourself or others, do it where I can't see it - I hate bloody messes".

ll

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Midwest redneck

03-14-2007 13:20:39




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
You should have went over right then and stopped him. I am sure that if the kid's dad was home he would have stopped it Now. Unless the kid's dad is a bum. Serious accidents are even worse when kids get behind the wheel of anything.



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dan hill

03-14-2007 13:12:43




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Dont ignore this.tell the father what you have seen going on.



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John S-B

03-14-2007 12:57:04




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Hillbilly, it's all been said. So go do what you know you oughta do, and let us know how it turns out. I'm sure you'll feel better about it.



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Glenn FitzGerald

03-14-2007 12:20:27




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
I would talk to your neighbor. Your good intentions will appeal to his better judgement sooner or later.

Glenn F.



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Davis In SC

03-14-2007 11:51:42




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Tell the parents!!! I have seen so many stories, of people getting crushed by skid steer buckets... If the parents get mad at you, they are not decent parents...



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ShepFL

03-14-2007 10:18:45




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
third party image

Grab that youn'un and get his attention! Explain to him the dangers of his actions to both himself and his buddies. He may ignore you but he will still be advised. At this age most kids feel they are INDUSTRUCTABLE. Perhaps a demonstration of running over a milk jug filled with water?

Secondly, ABSOLUTELY notify his parents! Failure to do so could end up with fatal consequences. It is his parents duty as it is also our obligation as adults to mentor/guide the youngsters. Remember, they do not have the life experience to make completely informed decisions.

Think of it this way, would you rather experience a short period of anxiety and do the right thing or have a life long memory of your neighbor's kid or another kid killed in a completely preventable accident. The kid will never graduate high school, get married etc. IMHO, in today's world we have way to many people afraid to STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY BELEIVE IN!!

Nothing said may result in an "OT - Kid Killed; pls send prayers" post.

Stepping off my soapbox. . .
ShepFL

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NE IA Dave

03-14-2007 09:53:49




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
If you need incouragment here it is. I'm sorry, I read your post and only started reading the second reply--don't need to read on any farther. If you have any regreatful fealings, you probably should, as you did not take the matters into your own hands --AS IT HAPPENED--or before they got killed. You are the grown up, and probably no magic intervention will ever happen on its own, regardless how much we wish or pray for it. You get to be the grown up like it or not. You are the answer to a serious problem. I realy think you know the answer her, just need the encouragment--show the neighbor these posts if you need backing, you will get a hand shake if they are parents. If you get reamed, they are not parents anyway, just people that had kids.

I'm no professional by any means, but been in EMS, fire dept for close to 30 years. So far the track record to date is you can't undo death or injury, simple as that. Every one comes with this crap, I should have done this or I should have done that--- Well dang it why doen't we do that? We all wish for re do's in life. Many accidents can be avoided, we all know that, simple as that again, yet accidents happen to kids that just are to young to understand the dangers, maybe the parens are the same way, why care? Thats WHY we have good neighbors and friends to help us parents get them to the gray hair stage of their lives. Please post back about your neighbors reaction after you tell on the kids. You know you are going to, might as well do it now before it gets to yea I'm sorry I should have mentioned it part of the game.

A very good rule of thumb is if you must ask if something is wrong, you know the answer already. If you feel uncomfortable, even with all this encouragment, (like I said, I only started reading the replies) I will give you my phone number, and I sure as heck will call them.

I come on big and bold at times, I am sorry if I offended your character, I have wiped away many tears in my life,lost alot of sleep after a tragidy, most times for a very very poor reason.

Let us explore the options if the neighbor gets upset with you? Does it realy bother you when you did the right thing? Go to the kids graduation in a few years, and shake their hands, perhaps I will shake your hand some day for doing the right thing. 563-964-2670 call collect 24/7

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jhill52

03-14-2007 09:42:40




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
My Uncle and 2 of my cousins were headed to town. One of their neighbors was out brush hogging and giving his 4 yr old a ride. They thought about going in and suggesting that he not do that but decided that it was none of their business. Later on there was an accident and the kid was run over and killed. My uncle felt pretty bad about not saying something for quite awhile. Go ahead and say something.

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Ray

03-14-2007 09:21:00




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Make an anonymous phone call to the parents.



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DuaneWKKC

03-14-2007 09:02:48




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
how come no one has mentioned pulling the kid aside next time you see him without his dad/mom and explaining your concerns. This little 'side' converstion would earn you respect from him ( if he's got any sense ) and would make him realize other people see what goes on. This alone might keep him from doing something dumb enough to kill himself or someone else.

This suggestion is soley based on the fact that it is to late to go over and ask what the heck are you doing, which you should have done. Leave dad out other than question 'does your dad know you are doing this?' Unless advise goes unheaded.

DuaneW.

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notmybusiness

03-14-2007 09:01:21




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Darwin award nominees ?

Can't watch after everyone.



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dds-inc

03-14-2007 08:06:52




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Look at it this way: If they got hurt real bad by that thing, and you stood there watching it happen when you know you could have prevented it, how would that make you feel both yourself and as a neighbor?

Surely a coward.

This is in no way meant as offensive, just something that could explain individual action VERSUS legal action.



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hillbillyOH

03-14-2007 09:05:11




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to dds-inc, 03-14-2007 08:06:52  
I should mention that these same kids were exploding gasoline bombs in a bonfire later that evening. (At least I think they were gasoline bombs -- the explosions were pretty significant.)

This made me feel a little less regretful about not intervening in the bocat incident. If they're out to hurt themselves one way or another, there's not much I can do about it in the long run.



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Vern-MI

03-14-2007 06:08:18




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Growing up in Muskegon we had a neighbor lady across the road who was an old Detroit school teacher. If she saw that any kid in the area was acting up she was on her feet and taking care of the situation in short order. She had a way of making me feel as big as an ant when she would grab my ear and pinch. I always respected her because she was right and she didn't squeal to my parents. She was the first one there with the help when I was rebuilding a motorbike or fixing something in the yard. I can still remember her explaining the inner workings of a bicycle Bendix brake system and getting her hands all dirty with the grease while she showed me how to put the discs back into the wheel hub properly. The kids in the area knew she meant business and wasn't just being and old nag. So depending on your relationship with the neighbors and their kids would dictate how you are going to handle this situation. I certainly would feel real bad if something happened to the kids and I had not tried to at least show them the possible danger in their attempt to have fun. People 25 years old don't have the sense to stay out of trouble so don't think 12-14 year olds are real good with reasoning skills. Be diplomatic and talk with the boys if you think that will rectify the situation.

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Tim B from MA

03-14-2007 06:01:08




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Several years ago the 14- 15 year old daughter of a contractor near here was driving around her two younger siblings in the bucket of a loader-backhoe. They fell out and she ran over both, and killed both.

You don't need to be an a$$ about it, but when you see someone doing something stupid and dangerous, especially kids, you should speak up.

When I was a kid, adults didn't have a problem telling other peoples kids what to do or, especially, what not to do. The world was a better place then.

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Billy NY

03-14-2007 05:48:35




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
That's a tough one, but any of this machinery is dangerous and unforgiving, even if you look like a schmuck doing so and saying something, you might prevent one of those kids from getting killed. And there is the possibility of the parental unit disagreeing. You could try, getting the kids attention, and speak to him on an adult level, without chastising or being authoritative (if there is such a word LOL ). I noticed you were riding around, just wanted to let you know that is a dangerous piece of equipment and you could easily hurt or kill someone if you are not careful, as well as it meant for work not joy riding.

I'd mention it to the parent, but keep it mild, hey I kinda noticed the kids fooling with the bobcat and just wanted to let you know I was concerned about them.

I was trusted to operate equipment at age 10-11, but not for fooling around, for work that was to be done, and I did have a good understanding of the dangers and the basics on safety, but if I was joyriding around with other kids in the bucket, I think I'd have been asked to stop. I associated this equipment with work, so joy riding really did not apply to my way of thinking, except taking the tractor for a ride to the end of the propery with a friend on the fender instead of walking was about it. Running over some bushes in an overgrown field or crossing the creek was as far as I'd take it, too many hills and other things, that I knew where dangerous, especially while working, rode on the fender many years with dad, and even that was dangerous.

I remember my neighbor who was a righteous old coot, who used to balk when he saw me fire up the old ford 4000, even lectured me once or twice, but he did not know that I grew up around this equipment and at an early age had a good grasp on how to operate it, was a natural at it and anytime a machine was needed for something, I'd be the first one to get it ready or fired up. never was shy about jumping in the seat either, onto something I wanted to learn how to run. He was a marine WW-II and Korea, fire chief in town and tried to lecture me on many occasions, they had no kids, and I never really gave him any attitude, but just kept on doing what I knew how to do, be it running the tractor or stoking a fire whils't burning old wood in the yard. He even ordered me to put one out once, I told him to get off the property, but nicely. Then I told him as a vet, you ought to know better, and properly dispose of that weather tattered american flag on his pole and put up a new one, and he kind of shut up and realized he was not immune to an 18 year old firing back a little. Just graduated from military school and we put the flag up and took it down every day. This never hurt anything, he was a still a good neighbor, and citizen, and I respected him, was there at his side when he passed too. You never know how someone will react, good to keep things civil and friendly somehow.

You are concerned enough to post about it here, see if you can keep it friendly and neighborly as mentioned. I've always found a way to keep things diplomatic, but also have been known for referencing harsh consequences of things, using real examples of things to get someones attention, especially when giving a tool box safety talk on a job site. Kind of a hard line to walk, but with some genuine concern and neighborly concern, I don't see how someone could not listen, unless they are stubborn. It's one thing to see a kid running equipment and wonder if he's gotten some education and enough seat time to be on his way as far as operating it safely, depends on who taught him, but include kids in the bucket, that would concern me and I'd make sure to mention my concern as friendly as I could. Arguing does nothing here.

A few years ago, a long time member of the I.W. local was on a the time warner twin towers, 70 story job, and his kid an apprentice was also on the job, father-son deal, which is tradition and nice to see a kid take up the trade, not many like this work today. Well this is a huge job site just south of central park and was the biggest job going on at the time pre-post 9-11-01 and that local had a ton of guys on that job setting the curtain wall panels, ( metal and glass, building enclosure ) and they struck a deal with the operating engineers to be allowed to run their own forklift on the job to handle material. The kid was doing burnouts and horsing around, turned the forklift over on himself and was killed on the job, same job dad was on. I remember the day of the funeral, all of 580 was there, including 30 or so of the guys on my crew, very solemn day and did not need to happen, all someone had to do was tell the kid to get off the lift, there aint no going back, so even if the guy curses at you and the kids tell you to eff off, which probably won't happen, at least you tried.

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Dave from MN

03-14-2007 05:36:20




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Never keep your mouth shut when it comes to unsafe acts. Dont be a prick, just have a come to Jesus discussion with them about what could very easily happen. 12-14 is pretty green yet. Definatly tell the parents. They need to know the facts from a witness. My buddy thinks his 8th and 9th grade girls are angelic chior girls cause he believes everything they say, and know one tells him different. Well, I did some snooping on their myspace, well, my daughter will NOT be spending time with them anymore. I told their dad he better check out thier pics and posting on thier myspace. As of last night they still have nasty pics and state they are in their 30's and lets say" looking for a bit too good of time for teens" Really bothers me cause I've known em since they were 6. You have to get involved these days

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mike a. tenn.

03-14-2007 05:29:41




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
i agree with broken wrench. if he hadn't already said it, that's exactly what i would have said. you can "squeal" on 'em without sounding like you're being a tattle-tale...and then let dad deal with it.



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russ hamm

03-14-2007 05:24:50




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
i'm with dig it. i woulda said something to the kids in a diplomatic way. tell em what could happen and why they shouldn't do it. then if they quit, i quit. it's thier job to tell dad after that not mine.



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Skycarp

03-14-2007 05:23:38




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
I worked as a Fire-Rescue professional for 34 years. I saw many mangled bodies as a result of carelessness and errors in judgment. That first time there wasn't and accident. Next time the boy might be a little more bold, or more careless.

We had a saying in the fire service regarding safety: "If it is predictable, it is preventable". I think you have a moral responsibility to get involved.

HTH

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Rich Va

03-14-2007 05:20:08




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
We know you are concerned about the safety of the kid,but,this day and time ,best to not say anything.



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conservative from Iowa

03-14-2007 09:33:11




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to Rich Va, 03-14-2007 05:20:08  
There is a Guv'mint agency, one which I happen to normally detest, but which thrives on unproven allegations, called the "D", "H' "S" and they just LOVE to be meddlesome busybodies where someone else's kids are concerned.

Perhaps an annonymous phone call from a pay phone (see, pay phones STILL have their uses)...



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Brokenwrench

03-14-2007 05:08:56




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
Since the situation has passed, and if you have a decent relationship with your neighbor, I`d just mention it to him casually. Like "I see your son and his buddies were having fun with your bobcat". When he asks what you`re talking about, then you can mention the fact that they were in the bucket going up and down the driveway. If he has any parenting skills whatsoever, that should tip him off to go and rearrange his sons way of thinking. If he doesn`t seem to care, then your intervening on the incident would have backfired on you with the kid and the dad blaming you for being a nosey neighbor anyway. Just my opinion

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Dig It

03-14-2007 05:06:50




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to hillbillyOH, 03-14-2007 04:53:53  
If you go tell them, you are meddling.

If one of the kids gets hurt, it is your fault for not meddling.

i would have told them to knock it off.



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TimS in Mo

03-14-2007 12:51:05




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 Re: Do you get involved or keep your mouth shut? in reply to Dig It, 03-14-2007 05:06:50  
Next time go over, flag them down, take the keys.

Tell them when Dad gets home have him come over to your house for the keys.

You don't want the guilt of having done nothing at all about the bobcat or the gas bombs when one of those kids gets run over or burned badly....so either stop it yourself or call the cops and let them do it.



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