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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

ULSD fuel Lubricity

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dej(JED)

03-01-2007 05:31:40




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I hear so much miss information about diesel that I thought I might try to help. I know someone will bash me, but what the heck. Sulfur occurs naturally in crude and is passed on to fuel in the production process. There are well over 100 different species of sulfur compounds that can be present. Sulfur has been an additive that has been in oils for years. It improves both lubricity and load carrying abilities. ASTM D 975 is the spec that should be followed for Diesel fuels, but it is not proactive and makes no allowance for lubricity per say. The days of a proactive refining industry are long since gone. There are very few R&D dollars available these days. The only time they look at anything is as a reaction to a problem. When you remove sulfur you remove lubricity and if the additive doesn't get put in the older injector pumps will fail. I have been seeing a lot of it at the laboratory these days. A lot of the older Farmall pumps are failing. It happens when the ULSD is used and not when the off road fuel is used. You can never really be sure that the additive is in the ULSD. ASTM will catch up, but it takes about 5 years for the specs to get changed.

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Jerry/MT

03-01-2007 11:56:44




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
Respectfully, it's my understanding that Suphur itself adds no lubricity to the fuel. However the process that removes the Sulphur, reduces the fuel lubricity. Therefore the refiners add lubricity additive to the reulting de-Sulphured fuel to meet the ASTM lubricity specs for the fuel.



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Joe(TX)

03-02-2007 04:31:55




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-01-2007 11:56:44  
Jerry
You are mistaken.
Sulfer is also used in gear lube to prevent galling.



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jdemaris

03-01-2007 08:39:26




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
In regard to the wear on internal metal parts in injection pumps - especially rotary pumps - it's been known for many years - what they can tolerate, and what they cannot. CAV, Stanadyne, the US Military, et. al. have done a lot or research and published it.

Also, wear is not the only issue. When viscosity gets low, pumps can leak internally even when wear has not occured.

When we buy fuel - I assume we'll never know, for sure, what the actual specs are - on the fuel going in the tank.

That being said, - a viscosity of 1.3 (1.3 square millimeters per second) and above seems to be the "breaking point." Anything thinner than that, leakage, lower lubricosity and early wear occurs.

United States #2 diesel fuel is supposed to have a viscosity of 1.9 or above at 40 degrees C.
United States #1 diesel - a min. of 1.3.
These specs apply equally to low-sulfur fuel and are based on the ASTM specs cited by dej.

In Europe, the minimum viscosity and cetane is higher.

In regard to "historical" wear in Farmall injection pumps - my ownly experience is with repairing Roosamaster pumps on Farmall/IHs, along with Roosamaster/Stanadyne and CAV rotaries on Deere, AC, and Ford equipment - since the early 1960s. Personally, I've seen very little metal parts wear in those pumps. The many early failures due to shattered plastic parts, shaft umbrella seals, fiber pump vanes, especially governor retainer dampeners has nothing to do with lubrication. I also have seen a lot of corrosion damage - inside head& rotor assemblies and on cam-rings which I assume is from water-in-fuel creating acids. I HAVE seen metal parts wear in newer pumps - especially in Stanadyne rotaries. And, the US military has had extremely high-failure rates with new pumps not lasting 1000 miles - but they are related to thinner fuels than we get at the pump (hopefully). For myself - I just assume I cannot trust, for sure - diesel fuel at the pump - and I use an additive that has been tested and proven to be effective.

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jimtho

03-01-2007 08:08:49




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
well...bottom line to all of this research is....what?

What are we supposed to do about it?



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dej(JED)

03-01-2007 07:29:26




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
Alan, Your point is valid. Yes ,a lot of those pumps failed in the past. What we are seeing
are actual scoring and freting of metal surfaces
in the pumps.Even the injectors are being erroded. The lubricity just isn't there.



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Allan In NE

03-01-2007 07:18:30




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
A lot of those old Farmall pumps were failing as far back 40 and 50 years ago too. :>)

Allan



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Joe(TX)

03-01-2007 06:27:33




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to dej(JED), 03-01-2007 05:31:40  
Well stated. I had read the previous post on the subject and saw a lot of misinformation. As an engineer it's hard to keep quite when you see such glaring errors.



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Lou

03-01-2007 08:42:26




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to Joe(TX), 03-01-2007 06:27:33  
So again whats the bottom line ? Do guys use additives like injector cleaners and lubricators or not ? Seems like cheap insurance, and some of the construction guys have told me they use them.



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Joe(TX)

03-02-2007 04:35:04




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to Lou, 03-01-2007 08:42:26  
Yes, I use additives. It's cheaper than a pump rebuild.



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jdemaris

03-01-2007 09:06:54




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 Re: ULSD fuel Lubricity in reply to Lou, 03-01-2007 08:42:26  
If you have a rotary pump - I know the Standyne and the Power Service lube-additives have been tested and known to work. I'm sure there are others also - but with the ones I mentioned, the test results are published and easy to find.

Overseas - canola oil is used a lot - to bring up lube.



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