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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel Powered Pickups

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Glenn F.

02-28-2007 18:06:45




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I'm not trying to strike up controversy here...but it sure seems diesel engines in pickups have ways to go. I know everyone has their horror/success stories, but it seems the bottom line is not good. Even when these trucks are driven "over the road," it seems there are frequently major ($$$) reliability issues. I am keeping my ear to the ground as I would like to buy a used dually before long, but the diesels (all types/models) are scaring me. Am I missing something?

Glenn F.

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aFORDable

03-01-2007 17:28:41




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
It's all about personal preference and practical use. When I was looking for a used truck to pull with and put limited miles a year on I setteled on a 99 F250 Ford with a V10. It was much cheaper to buy, has the power and has been very durable. It gets 8-9 mpg pulling and 12 hw. so it is not a run to Wal-Mart truck but I didn't buy it for that. I didn't want a diesel because I didn't want to pay the extra $5000 initially plus the repair/maintenance extra later. If I was an over the road big time miles driver then I'd have to strongly consider a diesel.

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ric1

03-01-2007 15:13:48




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
i know yournot suppose to do it but what would off road fuel do to the modern pickup diesels?



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Leland

03-01-2007 21:21:04




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to ric1, 03-01-2007 15:13:48  
some state have the state troopers swab your fuel to make sure it's not dyed if you get caught bend over and scream it's going to hurt .



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Gene Davis (GA)

03-01-2007 17:51:31




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to ric1, 03-01-2007 15:13:48  
Running off road fuel in some areas would get you a fine of XX number of dollars per gallon of fuel in your tank(s) of the vehicle you are in at the time of the offense.



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georgeky

03-01-2007 14:01:35




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I bought new F-350 Power Stroke in 96. It has 326,000 on it now, gets 20 mpg empty and 10 loaded. With the exception of a censor at 5000 miles it hasn't had any problems at all. The rest of truck has held up well also only 2 sets of brakes. Thats not bad we haul a D3 Cat around with it . It is hard to stop that Cat.



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Carp

03-01-2007 09:32:35




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I was always a big fan of diesel pickup trucks until the last few years. Lets do the math I did 2 years ago when I bought my truck. Gas PU gets 14MPG unloaded and 10MPG loaded. Friends diesel gets 19MPG unloaded and 15MPG Loaded. That is 26% better unloaded and 33 % better loaded. Right now gas is $2.30 and diesel is $2.75. Diesel costs 12% more. The net result would be 14% savings unloaded and 19% loaded. If you drive 15,000 miles year unloaded and 10,000 miles year loaded your total savings would be:

(15,000/14*$2.30*14%)+(10,000/10*$2.30*19%)=$782 year.

If you drive that truck for 10 years at 25,000 miles a year you will save $7,820 over that 10 years.

It cost approximately $3,000 to $6,000 more for a diesel. If you take $4,500 and invest it for 10 years you would have gained $1,547 in interest at 3% not to mention you don"t have to pay interest on the extra $4,500. Of course maybe some of us pay cash, but I cant afford to.

So if you keep a truck for 10 years you will save about $1,772 not including maintenance according to these very rought numbers.

Now let"s talk about towing. The numbers I used to compare above when I did it 2 years ago was between a 97 2500 chevy ext cab long bed with a 454 compared to a 97 250 ford ext cab long bed with a 7.3 diesel. The chevy will pull 14,000 lbs as easily as the ford. I can drive the speed limit on the freeway with that weight and not loose speed on the hills in Ohio and so can the ford. Not sure if you need to go faster than that.

If I was going to buy a truck right now, I would look for a 2003-2005 2500 chevy with the 8.1 and a 5 or 6 speed std trans. If you find one, they are fairly cheap. Look at the same exact truck with a duramax and compare prices.

I think that you will also find that maintenance is much higher price on the diesels. My friend found out. 14 quarts of oil, expensive oil filters, recomended to add lubricant to the fuel at about $6 per tank. Compare to spark plugs $2.50 each, wires at $40 and cap ???. These things last pretty easily at least 60,000 any more.

I don"t know which is right or wrong, but I went gas and am happy I did. Maybe if I was hauling 20,000 lbs several times a year I would have a diesel, but it would probably be an International for a Freightliner.

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jdemaris

03-01-2007 11:43:10




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Carp, 03-01-2007 09:32:35  
I think your calculations miss a few possibilities. For myself - the last new vehicle I bought was in 1970 - and I'll never do it again.
Since I buyed used, I don't necessarily pay a premium for diesel over gas. In fact, I can often buy diesel trucks cheaper - especially if they have a problem that the locals can't fix - such as a failed injection pump, a "mystery knock", etc. I paid $500 for my 87 3/4 ton diesel Suburban in 1995. It sat at the Chevy dealership - in a "no run" situation and a bunch of mechanics with NO diesel experience. I bought it, and it took me very little to repair it - including $75 in parts to fix the injection pump and $5 each to put in new fuel injectors. I put 380,000 of miles on it after buying it with 100K - and now my son has it.
It is a very simple engine to work on - and on a relative scale - parts are dirt-cheap. I just bought new OEM Bosch injection nozzles yesterday for another 6.2 diesel - cost $5.97 each. Try to do that with a newer diesel with common-rail injection. I can relate many similar stories. I just bought a rust-free 1991 diesel Suburban 4WD for $250 from the local school district on sealed-bid. It has 120K miles and I assume I will easily put anther 200K on it. In regard to fuel costs - I use a fair amount of waste vegetable oil along with all my waste motor oil. Not a huge savings, but some. And, in some states I've driven through, diesel is cheaper than regular gas (but not here in NY).

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Carp

03-01-2007 11:52:01




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to jdemaris, 03-01-2007 11:43:10  
I am sure that you can buy all of the 80's and ealy 90's 6.2 diesels that you could possibly want. If I had 1, I know I would certainly sell it cheap. The 6.2 and 6.5 neither 1 were paticularly powerful diesels but were fuel efficient. A 454 could pull with either of them without a problem.

If you look at the late 90's and early 00's I have found that you will still pay a 3000 to $6000 premium for a diesel. Big blocks like the 454, 8.1 and the V-10's can sometimes be bought for a bargin because people don't like to buy gas for them.

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jdemaris

03-01-2007 12:56:24




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Carp, 03-01-2007 11:52:01  
I guess it depends on what you want it for. The G.M. 6.2 diesel was originally designed to be a diesel alternative to the 305 small-block gas engine. They have identical horsepower and torque ratings. When used for light to med-duty work, they are fine.

The Ford IH engines were different. They were never offered in a light-truck. The engines came stock - with gear-drive in front (no timing chain like a 6.2 or 6.5), forged steel crank (GM uses cast iron), hard valve-seat inserts and rotators on all valves (GM has neither), etc. etc.
My 94 Ford F250 - with the last 7.3 turbo offered with IDI, does all I'll ever need to do - with a pickup truck. And . . . it's pretty easy work on, and parts are very cheap - as compared to parts for newer diesel trucks. I paid $3300 for it with 160K in 2003. I know, with care, the engine will last to at least 400K and probably more. I pull my 10,000 lb. gooseneck just fine - and I have no need to work a pickup any harder than that. With my figuring, my diesels have been very cost-effective - but yeah, I have to work on them. But, at least I can. Not so sure if I could if I had a new truck with a price-tag of more than I bought my farm for. I assume, since this is an antique engine and tractor forum - that some people still work on their own road vehicles as well as their tractors.

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Carp

03-01-2007 13:33:20




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to jdemaris, 03-01-2007 12:56:24  
That is 1 more think to like about the current gassers is that you can still work on them a little. Look under the hood of a new diesel and you better know what you are doing.



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Dave in Tx

03-01-2007 08:42:07




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
96 dodge 2500 diesel, auto trans. 339798 miles
pulled trailer prolly 200000 of that. on third set of front brakes, 1 lift pump, trans rebuilt at 225000. $1100.oo. 1 TPS and a leak on a hose o the oil cooler. no front end problems yet, but I drive only on hiway, no gravel roads. rather drive it on trips than 2000 suburban. gonna try to get 500,000 before I buy another..... ...



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Allan In NE

03-01-2007 08:51:20




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Dave in Tx, 03-01-2007 08:42:07  
My wife has a really sweet Yukon.

Every time I jump in that thing to go somewhere (which isn't very darned often), I think there must be something wrong with it. No power..... ..... .. :>)

Allan



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Cliff Neubauer

03-01-2007 06:25:27




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
When was the last time you saw an ambulance or a firetruck with a gas engine? They are running diesel's because they have to be reliable and generally when you see an application where reliability is required it will have a diesel engine. The biggest problem that modern diesel engines have is the crap that the EPA is requiring. In Europe around 40% of the passenger vehicle's are diesel powered but their environmental regulation's aren't as strict.

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Joe(TX)

03-01-2007 06:13:20




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
Reliability is not an issue, at least with the Dodge diesels. There has been issues with the later 6.0 Fords and the 6.2 and 6.5 Chevys. In general, a diesel will outperform and out last a gasoline engine, as well as get better fuel economy.



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jdemaris

03-01-2007 06:07:22




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  Reliability ???? in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
My 85 Ford F250 with the 6.9 diesel has 380,000 miles and never been apart. My 87 Suburban with the 6.2 diesel made it to 520,000 before the crank broke - and it puled a stock trailer many of those miles. My 94 Ford F250 with 7.3 turbo IDI has 290,000 and never been apart. My 83 Chevy Blazer with 6.2 diesel has 320,000 and it's a plow truck every winter - never been apart. My 85 Isuzu 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel has just about 300,000 miles and never been apart. My wife's 91 Volkswagen Jetta with 1.6 diesel has over 400K miles and I had to replace the head-gasket once. I don't think I can complain about any of them.

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jubilee johnny

03-01-2007 05:20:16




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I have a 03 Ford f-250 supercab with a 7.3 and an 03 Ford Excursion with a 6.0. I have made long trips with both pulling 10,000 lbs of old tractors and have had much better results than my previous gas powered pickups. I have programed both and can get as much as 25 mpg as well.



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R.D.F.

03-01-2007 05:04:24




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
Check out, www.whygas.com and follow the little arrows,.



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sammy the RED

03-01-2007 05:02:59




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I think davpal summed it up the best.

I bet 15 out of 20 diesel pushers out there were bought because they thought it would be Cool to have a diesel pusher.



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Joe(TX)

03-02-2007 13:25:28




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to sammy the RED, 03-01-2007 05:02:59  
I would take the bet Sammy and win. Unless you are talking about people who use their trucks like a car and never actully haul anything.



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T_Bone

03-01-2007 04:56:11




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
Hi Glenn,

It hasn't changed in over 40yrs that I've been buying new vehicles, never buy the first couple years of any new model change. This has worked well for me with the least amount of head aches.

I bought a 02 F350 dually PSD that was in the 4th year new engine production. Not a problem one so far. The bottom line is that the diesel has saved me over 2/3 the fuel cost vs my old gasser and I have twice the power available.

I might have considered the 6.0 in 2006 but it would be shakie. Too early to tell about the 6.4

I would probably be looking at a Dodge if I was wanting to buy last year in 2006.

I don't buy used pick-ups as it's not cost effective for me. I also don't buy another new pick-up until my last one is ready for the junk yard or is no longer cost effective to make repairs.

T_Bone

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Rich Iowa

03-01-2007 04:47:09




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I think the costs of maintaining gassers and diesels are about equal. Gassers will consantly need plugs, wires (nickel and diming you), while diesels main things to wear out are pumps and injectors and cost ALOT to repair/replace, but they usually last a loooong time. I had a '96 Ford F250 with the 7.3 Powerstroke with 170k miles on it and only problem i had with it on 2 years of owning it was batteries and other small things that go with owning any vehicle. Like the young fool I am, I traded that (paid for) truck in on a used '03 Dodge 2500 with the Cummins and at this time it has 97k miles on it and other than replacing a fuel pump I've had no trouble with it. I'm not the type that likes to start and stop a diesel all day so when i'm driving around town i usually drive my junkie gas powered Dodge Dakota. If you do lots of towing, diesels are the way to go. but if you just need a pickup to run around in and haul the occasional bed frame for friends, there is nothing wrong with a gasser.

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Hard Knocks

02-28-2007 23:46:56




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
My Ford Powerstroke has given excellent service
and its a better drving vechile than any car I have ever been in. I'm waiing for Toyota to build a 3/4 ton diesel pickup.



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davpal

02-28-2007 23:28:53




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
The only thing wrong with the Navistar, Cummins, or Duramax engines is that they got them wrapped in a ford, dodge and a chevy. The engines would probably last a million miles of driving each if they had a decent chassis to put them in! Big three can overcomplicate, over-engineer, cheapen up, and basically F#%^ up any engine package by putting their vehicle around it. I have fords and have paid the price of ownership that is for sure. Next truck will probably be a dodge. Not a diesel. Diesels are made to go all day down the road without stopping, hauling cargo. Not for going and getting groceries, or starting and stopping taking kids to soccer practice and school 10 times a day or putting around town. Even most farmers don't use them for how they are intended to be used. Starting and stopping, farting around a farm, starting at 0 degrees 1000 times a year and then wondering why they rattle or start hard. 90% or more of farmers could easily get by with gas engines to do everything they want to. It seems to be more of a status symbol to be a big diesel owning talker. I live on a highway and watch people drive by with delta 88 olds and caprice classics go by pulling 25 foot travel trailers for years. Now people think they need a 650 ft lb diesel to pull a pop up camper or two place snowmobile trailer.

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buickanddeere

02-28-2007 21:10:40




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
Diesel pickup have thier place in some applications. The Cummins engine powered pickup is the winner, due to the engine. Now a Cummins if in a GMC, ok I'd be really tempted to purchase one.



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Leland

02-28-2007 20:42:24




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
screw the green idea wait until cat comes up with a p-up motor you guys will wonder where it's been all your lives , every cat I have ever drove walked all over most others



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mj

02-28-2007 23:11:53




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Leland, 02-28-2007 20:42:24  
"Most of the others" being the operative word here..... Rogee?



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dds-inc

02-28-2007 20:38:06




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
older 7.3L powerstrokes (2002 and below) are the best. 6.0 powerstrokes absolutely suck with a low longevity rating. All the cummins seem to be holding up well. Duramax engines i personally wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

I buy used. I'll never have another new truck at this point in life, not with all this bullschitt manufacturing



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joe-etx

02-28-2007 19:50:25




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
glenn my thoughts are this, each engine manufactor wants to make engines for a certain use ,but have to meet standards set by US goverment,so to get fleet wide x miles per gallon thay have car and LIGHT duty truck manufactors install in there vechicles and fleet wide x gallons per mile goes up.and thay sell more engines.to gm, dodge ( you dont see mb diesel engines in dodge trucks?),and ford.now i worked in gm dealerships for 32 years,but toyota and nissan are selling gas engines but going for better brakes and transmissions. drive trains, in 1/2 ton trucks.i know my old(miss) 72 elcamino 454 , 3 speed auto would move but to stopping was something else.i have 91 454 4 speed 1 ton and it will move any thing i feael it needs to move or will have freind with freightliner move it.so if a diesel is going to cost 4 or 5 thousand more and i can replace my 454 two or three times to cost of a diesel pick up and have same maintance per mile, i got to go gas
my thoughts joe

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Larry806

02-28-2007 19:38:24




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I have 1 power stroke I just bought . 1 6.9 . has over 300,000 had to replace a head gasket . and 1 old 6.2 The Chebbie 6.2 takes a lot of maintenance to keep it running . My youngest has a Ford 6.9 230,000 had to put a 500.00 fuel pump on it . The other 2 boys have power strokes each pushing 200,000 both have had the cam sensor replaced



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Davis In SC

02-28-2007 19:11:02




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I have had lots of problems with my 92 and 01 Dodge diesels. Batteries only last 4 years, Fuel gage level drops when I drive them, for some reason, tires wear out in 3 or 4 years... All kidding aside, both of my Dodges have been excellent.. 92 has had a thermostat and waterpump put in, the 01 had a minor problem with the heat/AC control... that is all.. No problems with either engine or tranny...

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Clint Youse MO

02-28-2007 19:10:27




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
It all depends on what you are doing hauling a pulling diesel is great running to town shut it of get in it run to the next store gas is better I have one of each 96 2500chevy with 350 vortec 172000 mile thought it was great until I bought my 05 Duramax/Allison dually can go 0-70with a 10,000 pound tractor on the trailer in a 1/4 of a mile and gets lots better mileage pulling the trailer hate to even hook an empty on to the 96 now. use it around the farm for a chore truck and all the dirty stuff.

Clint

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Davis In SC

02-28-2007 19:10:08




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I have had lots of problems with my 92 and 01 Dodge diesels. Batteries only last 4 years, Fuel gage level drops when I drive them, for some reason, tires wear out in 3 or 4 years... All kidding aside, both of my Dodges have been excellent.. 92 has had a thermostat and waterpump put in, the 01 had a ninor problem with the heat/AC control... that is all.. No problems with either engine or tranny...

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Steven@AZ

02-28-2007 19:01:45




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
The problem with the Internet and any vehicle is this: people who have one ounce of trouble come on to post about it and complain endlessly. The people who have good luck/no problems don't bother to come on and tell us all about it...



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davpal

02-28-2007 23:44:29




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-28-2007 19:01:45  
Steve I don't agree with that at all. The internet is fairly new to most people and it is just a way of bringing forth a lot of problems that have been there all along. We just didn't have a way to easily talk to people in so many different locations about the same problem. It actually helps because you can do a search and usually find out much easier what is wrong with any item you are having problems with. There are troubleshooting forums to help with just about anything nowdays. Even the car dealers use the internet to read the forums to fix the cars. I just had a transmission done at a mechanic that used the internet to troubleshoot it. The ford dealer couldn't even figure out what was wrong with their own brand of vehicle. I know what you mean about bashing, god knows I do enough of it, but most of it is just people venting. No harm, no foul. Later.

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Jim Johnson

02-28-2007 18:59:43




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
Well I've got two 97's, one a dually and the other is single tired. 180,000 on one and 120,000 on the other, no engine problems on either. Jim



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TMay

02-28-2007 18:57:47




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I have a 95 Dodge with the Cummins. The engine has given me very little trouble. 285,500 miles on her. developed a bad oil leak and the shut off valve had to be replaced. On that same note you say diesel and parts prices go up. the other issues have been with the front end which I understand was due to the weight of the diesel engine. In my opinion if I get one of the older trucks say 2000 on back get a manual trans. The automatics were very weak back in the day when the diesels were just getting popular. They were just regular trannys and the torque of the diesel was more than they could stand. Good luck Stay safe

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JDGnut

02-28-2007 18:49:02




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I think you just hear about the bad ones.. the squeekey wheels.. Almost 200K on my 01 Cummins.. One lift pump replaced.. ($100).. a few other little things, that would have applied to any Dodge truck, brakes, track bar, Clutch.. (due to performance upgrades.) Cracked Dash.. Dad sold his at 205K.. One automatic trans, a two TPS.. Dads new truck 03 Duramax.. 60K... 0 problem from anything on the truck... Look at the 5.3L Chevy engine... and how many have had intake problems.. I think many of the diesel owners of fanatics about thier trucks... I know I am... I'll have a hard time ever getting back into another gasser... JDGnut

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ric1

02-28-2007 18:20:56




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
your probably more right than wrong wasnt really looking for a diesel when i got mine but it came with a utility bed four wheel dr. duramax allison for just under $30000 not including tax. the one i got rid of was a 02 2500 hd gaser with 160000 0n it with zero problems other than a battery and brakes. i have to trade them in every 5 yrs its a company i work for thing. but i got a bad feeling the next one will be back to a gaser

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rodgernbama

02-28-2007 18:15:49




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to Glenn F., 02-28-2007 18:06:45  
I've never owned one but in talking to people who have the 7.3 powerstroke that was sold in ford's was a good engine. For some reason that I don't understand, they changed to a 6.0 diesel in 2003 which had a lot of problems. Just saw on the news that Navistar and Ford are parting ways probally because of the engine problems. Navistar made the diesel engines for Ford.



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GeorgeH

03-01-2007 17:48:58




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 Re: Diesel Powered Pickups in reply to rodgernbama, 02-28-2007 18:15:49  
If you check the latest news, you will find that the ways have not been parted.



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