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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Duals vs 4 wheel drive

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Willy P

01-22-2007 19:03:08




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How much better are rear duals as far as pulling in mud or soft ground? I pull a planter with a JD 4030 with duals because lot of the time the field has wet spots in it,but do the duals help that much? The outside tires are worn down, my concern is hauling the tractor,would be a lot easier if it didn't have duals. The 4030 is 80 hp, but would a tractor of about 70 hp with front wheel assist pull as good as this tractor? I am thinking about getting a 4 wheel drive because the ground is wet sometimes and it would be easier to haul on trailer. I am pulling a 10 ft. Bermuda King sprig planter with a land roller behind it. Thanks

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paul

01-23-2007 11:16:32




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Do you sink into the mud? You need to keep the duals.

Do you have a pull type planter, or a mounted 3pt planeter? You'll need the duals to carry the planter on 3pt.

Are you spinning out in the mud? The 4wd will help you a lot there.

If you are looking to trade tractors, go for the 4wd.

But be prepared to get duals for it as well.

Depends if you need the traction, or the floatation.

--->Paul

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barnrat

01-23-2007 07:01:24




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Around here if you plant corn and want to harvest it successfully. You gotta run FWA w/ duals rice and cane tires. A gap between the dual so mud squish out and lottsa weight in the front end. Below is my corn harvesting tractor that is now set up with rice and canes all the way around and more weight in the front.
third party image

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Marty G.

01-23-2007 06:27:37




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
You have to go back to basics on this question.
First the point of ballasting a tractor is a good one, your tractor, rule of thumb here, must be weighting close to a 100# per horsepower it produces to get good traction. Another point is the quality of your tires lug. Rice type tires have deeper lug than regular Ag tires so will dig in deeper. Some research have been made when it comes to duals versus single tires. To get more traction out of duals both duals need to be narrower than the regular single tire. In other words, the track width of the narrow dual equalled to the track witdth of a single makes more traction. To had a set of dual the same width only helps in flotation and actually decreasses traction. Hope this helps and not confuses people.

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Willy P

01-23-2007 06:17:03




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
I appreciate all the good advice,because I don't have much experience with fwa. Looks like my best thing to do would go and buy a tractor that I can load on my trailer,with FWA, I have been trying to decide which way to go and I knew ya'll could help,now if I can find a good used tractor. THANKS



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Dave from MN

01-23-2007 04:44:56




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Freinds I help have heavy wet ground, call them mud farmers, In the 80's 1/2 tractors had MFWD, the other half was dualled 2wd's. Today they have 13 tractors all have MFWD with the exception of 2 880's. Duals are used depending on the moisture for the year, so in my experience the MFWD is the better for wet ground, adding duals helps even more, but they would never get there crops in if they only had 2wd tractors with duals. Remember though, that on the older MFWD's you will have a much larger turning radious, which may affect your turning at the head lands depending on how large your planter and other equipment are.

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Mike M

01-23-2007 04:32:39




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Well you can't even buy a small tractor in 2WD and all the pickup trucks running around with 4x4 that should tell you something ? Go for the 4x4 then you will have it when/if you need it. You can always disengage it ?



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low budget

01-23-2007 04:10:29




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
One thing I'd like to mention about FWA. Having the front wheels turning instead of plowing through a wet spot makes a big difference. You mention being easier to trailer a FWA tractor, if thats a big consideration in your operation and your thinking of trading tractors anyhow it would be an easy choice for me. What else will you be using the tractor for? You can't beat FWA for loader work. I have a JD 2755 FWA with a loader and it handles a 5-18 bottom plow nicely. Not as fast as my turbo 4020 but traction is no issue. I leave the loader on for ballast.

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Don-Wi

01-23-2007 00:53:30




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
All we own are 2 wd tractors, and we have duals for 2 of them, 18.4 34's for the Massey 285& 38's for the Oliver 1855. Both pairs are worn, but by far the 38's are the worst. They're almost bald.

We really only bought the 38's to help with the flotaion aspect of it, because the springtooth we use for finishing the seed bed does not level out the tire tracks if the duals aren't on there. The 285 has had duals since before I was around. When we get new tires mounted on the 1855, the ones on it now (Coop radials) will go to the dual rims, and the other ones will be disposed of properly for a small fee. Then there should be quite a bit more traction.

They definatley help get through the wet spots too, but if they start to spin your screwed, unless you got a bigger tractor to pull you out.

I know they can be a pain for things like hauling down the road, and also making too sharp of a turn. I did the latter this last spring with the manure spreader on the 285 and put a 10" gash right in the tread. We have the old Goodyears that were taken off of that tractor about 15-20 years ago due to carcass seperation, so we had one of them mounted. Still plenty of tread, and more than whats on the other side.

I know, a little more than you needed to know...

Donovan from Wisconsin

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colekicker

01-22-2007 23:03:07




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Ok, so just putting duals on may not solve the problem. Couple things to think about. Are the tires spinning? If they are, then traction is the issue. Put two more tires there and you'll get the traction, plus less pounds per sq inch. Or, load them up with more weights so they don't slip.

Now, a 2wd tractor that's ballast correctly, should not have problems.

Before the 4 wheel drive term is thrown around too much, lets correct that. Front Wheel ASSIST. Only assistance. You should have slippage with the front axle is you have a tractor that is FWA. If you load the front rack on a FWA tractor, you are asking for power hop. If you are getting good traction in the rear, FWA may help more. But, the ballasting the tractor correctly is the most important part.

Now your implement. How many shanks does it have on it? Around my parts, 10 hp per shank is the norm.

Just a few things to think about.

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RodInNS

01-22-2007 19:39:05




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
....and we'll argue this till the cows come home.

I run rear duals on a front wheel assist tractor, and a friend runs duals on all 4 corners of a FWA tractor. Generally, yes, duals do make a big difference, particulairly in the flotation department. I'd say if you go to a heavy FWA tractor with good tires, you won't notice much difference in traction compared to what you've got now with poor duals. Good duals should pull more than the FWA. I'm not sure I'd cut the power back though, unless you feel the tractor simply has way more power than needed now.
What I wouldn't do is expect some new lightweight fluff with FWA to pull the same load as the old Deere. Much of the answer to your question lies in the proper placement of ballast as much as where the wheels are spinning. Don't get me wrong. I love FWA, and I wouldn't buy a tractor without it, but I dual them up too....
In short, you'll probably get away with what you want to do if you get a heavy enough series of tractor and adequate power. I'd be looking at a 6000 series Deere to fill those boots. Good luck.

Rod

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Cliff Neubauer

01-22-2007 19:32:20




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
In soft ground I'd take the MFD. We have two MFD tractors and in soft ground they will barely leave a track where a 2wd tractor with duals would get stuck. The biggest advantage to MFD comes with either heavy tillage with very high draft loads or loader work but I think you would like it better than duals for your job.



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Raleigh

01-22-2007 19:22:50




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 Re: Duals vs 4 wheel drive in reply to Willy P, 01-22-2007 19:03:08  
Man!!! I have also wondered this my self!!! I was just afraid to ask! But I hope you get alot of good replies to this!!!



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