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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Land Description Pitfalls

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noncompos

01-09-2007 21:44:58




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With the recent threads about land boundary questions, if you're reading your deed descriptions, there are certain rules that apply, like (A): Got Section 7 and the west half of 8? Sounds like 960 Ac...sections are 640 Ac...but since you can't lay squares out on a round body, sections 1 to 7, 18,19, 30 and 31 may've been "adjusted", and contain less (or even more, sometimes). And don't feel smug if you've got sections 15 and 16, if you're in anything like rough country (and sometimes on the flats); lots of the original GLO surveys were put out to bid and done by the lowest bidder...Your County Surveyor will have a set of the original Township and Range (blocks of 36 sections) plats, and there are considerable variations...
(B) your west line goes from the point of beginning N 16 27 W along Hills east line 500 feet to Wells south line...but you may not actually go N 16 27 W, or 500 feet, because generally the "tie" to Hills east line controls over the compass bearing stated, and the actual distance up to Wells south line (whether less than 500 or more than 500) generally controls over the distance stated. (C) Your line runs to and along the centerline of Muddy Creek...Oh? The centerline as it existed when? If it's moved, the general rule is that if the moving was gradual, the normal stream slowly, imperceptibly wearing away the banks, the land boundary MOVES WITH IT...BUT if the stream moves because of flood or sudden temporary increase in flow, the land boundary stays in the "old" centerline. As you can guess, the party losing land claims FLOOD! and the party gaining land says WHAT FLOOD? This can raise all kinds of sticky questions. These few examples are just to show that reading deed descriptions, land descriptions, is subject to certain rules of interpretation that may considerably modify what the deed seems to say, and professional advice should be sought before any actions are taken.

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Eric SEI

01-10-2007 19:49:15




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 Re: Land Description Pitfalls in reply to noncompos, 01-09-2007 21:44:58  
In our area the official monument is the cornerstone of the Presbyterian Church and all the official surveys work from that point. It's got a round metal seal giving the official measurement at that location. For most surveys the surveyors work from markers they know already measured from the church. There is one in the road at the end of our drive way and we can tell when the surveyors have been out because they have chieseled out the blacktop to find the pin again.

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John T

01-10-2007 06:48:12




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 Re: Land Description Pitfalls in reply to noncompos, 01-09-2007 21:44:58  
Good post and good info, it goes to show some of the reasons we cant give any short sweet answers regarding boundary disputes here in a paragraph or two. Those original old government surveys in the late 1800's were done with chains etc in harsh conditions and Im amazed how half way accurate at least they were. When a surveyor buddy of mine came to my farm for a vist he insisted we get up at 6 AM on Saturday to go n look for the Section corner and lo n behold he got to digging in the approximate area and found an old sandstone with a big X carved out on top n I though he was gonna cry. Later the county surveyor whose job is to locate n re set Section corners mapped it all out and its on record now at the Courthouse and is the starting point for surveys in this neighborhood. I keep it well preserved and flagged n marked n memorialized every year for future benefit.

Ive come to realize its the ALTA folks who are the authority and experts on this subject and like I tell clients consult a good surveyor or a title company about this cuz they know more then most lawyers about the subject.

For sure monuments rule over distances in legal descriptions if theres a discrepancy and battles over riparian rights can take 100 Philladelphia lawyers to settleeeee ee VERY COMPLEX AND SPECIALIZED SUBJECT

John T

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Mike (WA)

01-10-2007 08:35:10




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 Re: Land Description Pitfalls in reply to John T, 01-10-2007 06:48:12  
The entire east half of our county is about 30 feet off the true survey lines- legend has it that the guy who originally "found" the corner from which everybody else surveyed was also quite "fond" of the jug that he carried with him. When the error was discovered many years later, an oldtimer who knew the original surveyor said the explanation was simple- "Bill simply set that corner too late in the day."

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paul

01-09-2007 22:10:35




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 Re: Land Description Pitfalls in reply to noncompos, 01-09-2007 21:44:58  
Road changed 70 years ago. New easement. Whole road was couple 100 feet on property, moved to edge of property, but 100% on same farm, _not_ 50% down line.

All surveyed out.

Builder comes along, decides it is real hard to make the curves around 2 buildings a bit east - out of place 1-room schoolhouse & house. So he changes the centerline of the road, keeps the road on the easement, but 25 feet offset from the original survey. More curvy. Shouldn't matter, road all on the same property anyhow, & within the easement, no harm done.

Not clearly written down on any official paper, either..... .

Years later, survey companies buy each other out, all merge into one.

Years later, fire at the one, original documents & any 'side' notes - if any - are all destroyed for this road.

Years later, county decides to widen the road, take more easement.

Well, low & behold, massive survey co takes measurements from the centerline of the road, and we lose 25 feet of property! Huh.

Since this is one of those 'special' sections you mention, oh well the 25 feet must just be part of the 'adjustment'.

Well, see, there was a metal stake driven under the tar where the road curves, showing the property line.... Survey crew finds metal with their wand within 2 feet of where dad points. Well, uh, we wouldn't know what that is, unless we dug it up, could be anything....

Two days later, bulldozer is flattening that corner, all leveled out, tar & all. Rest of 5 miles they scrap off & recycle, but for some reason that corner got work early one morning with a bulldozer, oh, no, didn't notice any metal bits, didn't know anything should be there?

Hum.

All sorts of things can happen.

Neigbors didn't even disagree with dad, was all county & big mega survey company.

Electric company had to move posts after the road rebuild, they even stopped in and asked dad, why the posts need to be moved 35 feet on one side, only 5 feet on the other. Seemed odd to them.

Hum.

--->Paul

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