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O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor

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MeAnthony

12-19-2006 17:47:54




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The patient: '92 Dodge Caravan 3.3 v6 auto
The symptoms: hard starting; won't stay running

Tonight, on a cold start, it fired up on the 3rd try(didn't fire at all on first 2). Idled smoothly for about 5 minutes, then started running rough. This occurs as a slight miss and gradually worsens until the engine quits. Running time can be prolonged by moderately revving the engine. When it does quit, it will restart but still runs very poorly, and only for a few seconds.

We put this engine in this summer(engine is from a '91 New Yorker). Problems did not arise until fall, when temperatures dropped.

I noticed tonight that there's a sensor on the intake that's not plugged in. I can not find a plug in the wiring for this sensor. By the Haynes manual, this is the charge temperature sensor. What is the function of this? Does it read the temperature of the air entering the intake for the computer to adjust richness?

My best guess is that it is loading up with fuel. Does this make sense to y'all? Wouldn't an overfueling problem be less pronounced at cold start(when fuel needs to be richer) and get worse as the engine warms up(when fuel need to be leaner)? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Can someone explain the function of this sensor, just to make sure I am going in the right direction?

Suggestions and opinions are appreciated; I thank you for your time.

Happy Holidays!

Anthony

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David Gray

12-20-2006 08:26:23




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
You might try posting your question on carjunky.com They have some real experts there who can answer just about anything in the way of car problems. Good luck.



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Bryan in Iowa

12-20-2006 06:16:21




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
Can you post a pic of it ? The only sensors right by the throttle plate are ,Throttle positition sensor, and the Idle control acuator .Either one of thse can cause you trouble .They should set a code though . Also check fuel pressure regulator for leaking .Pull vac line off nipple and see if it's wet with fuel . Just couple ideas till we get more info or see pic. Havign scan tool hooked up would give clear pic as to what is going on

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MeAnthony

12-20-2006 06:28:01




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to Bryan in Iowa , 12-20-2006 06:16:21  
It's a little farther inward(following the direction of airflow). There's a curve in the intake neck where the throttle plate bolts on. This sensor is just past the curve, where the neck straightens out before entering the main body of the intake. It screws in from the bottom side of the intake neck. I can try for a pic later today.

I checked for vacuum at the fuel pressure regulator, thinking a busted vac line, and don't recall any dampness.

As far as the scan tool, I couldn't agree more! lol I've suggested a couple times that he trailer it to town and have that done, but the idea hasn't sunk in yet.

Thank you,
Anthony

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Bob

12-19-2006 18:26:33




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
Some engine 'puter systems look at coolant temp only, or BOTH intake air temp, AND coolant temp. It all depends upon how the van was originally set up. The readings of the temp sensor(s), in effect, tell the puter how much "choke" to use, in this case, to add to the injector pulse duty cycle.

WHERE is the sensor.... intake manifold of the donor engine, or in the intake air ducting that has been with the van all along?

If the sensor is in the donor engine, and the original engine did NOT have one there, there obviously won't be a pigtail/connector in the van's harness for it, nor will the van's as-original 'puter be looking for it. Of course, also the original engine could have the sensor at a different location.

If you have access to a good scan tool, you can probably get a readout on what the 'puter thinks the coolant temperature is, as well as seeing if it is looking at the charge air temperature, and what it is seeing for a temperature there, to see if it makes sense.

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MeAnthony

12-20-2006 05:30:13




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to Bob , 12-19-2006 18:26:33  
The sensor is in the intake manifold, just behind the butterfly valve. He's already junked the original engine, so I can't check if there was one on it. I do know some of the engine wiring harness had to be changed. The donor engine connections were different than the original van wiring. I think(emphasis on 'think') it has all the 'van-original' wiring now, but I'm not certain. Maybe we swapped out a plug that we need?

Also, there are 2 water temperature sensors. One is on the end of the front head. This one operates the temp. guage. But there's another one, much larger, directly behind the thermostat. What's the function of this one?

Thanks,
Anthony

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Bob

12-20-2006 06:04:45




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-20-2006 05:30:13  
If you've mixed and matched harnesses, all bets are off.


If you are still using the van's original 'puter, it will be looking for the exact same wiring and sensors as it left the factory with.

If the wiring has been "cobbled up", it would be a NIGHTMARE to trace every thing out to get it back to what the 'puter expects to see.



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MeAnthony

12-20-2006 06:09:22




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to Bob, 12-20-2006 06:04:45  
As I recall, the plugs for the alternator and cam sensor were different. It wasn't a 'cut and rewire' type of job; it was 'unplug this section(snap-connectors by battery tray to disconnect engine harness) and plug that one in'.

I sure wish he hadn't gotten rid of everything; it would be a whole lot easier if I had the other wiring to look at.



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Bob

12-19-2006 18:26:23




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
Some engine 'puter systems look at coolant temp only, or BOTH intake air temp, AND coolant temp. It all depends upon how the van was originally set up. The readings of the temp sensor(s), in effect, tell the puter how much "choke" to use, in this case, to add to the injector pulse duty cycle.

WHERE is the sensor.... intake manifold of the donor engine, or in the intake air ducting that has been with the van all along?

If the sensor is in the donor engine, and the original engine did NOT have one there, there obviously won't be a pigtail/connector in the van's harness for it, nor will the van's as-original 'puter be looking for it. Of course, also the original engine could have the sensor at a different location.

If you have access to a good scan tool, you can probably get a readout on what the 'puter thinks the coolant temperature is, as well as seeing if it is looking at the charge air temperature, and what it is seeing for a temperature there, to see if it makes sense.

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karl f

12-19-2006 18:24:26




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
this sensor is slightly important, since its data (intake air temperature) is used to make minute adjustments in the pcm. not so familiar with chrysler as gm, but on a gm, this sensor doesnt do very much other than need to be plugged in, or a fake value created for it by putting in a regular resistor of a pre determined value. usually cold weather starting and idling issues are more greatly affected by the engine coolant temp sensor (for the pcm), the idle air controller, the throttle position sensor, and some type of throttle body heater whether coolant or exhaust (just like the carbs of yesteryear). if you have a check engine light on, find out what's putting that light on. if you dont, find out if it is even functional.
good luck
karl f

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MeAnthony

12-20-2006 05:47:04




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to karl f, 12-19-2006 18:24:26  
The check engine light does work, but I'm only getting a 12(power to pcm memory lost(because battery was taken out?)) and a 55(end of test).



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Aaron Ford

12-19-2006 17:53:44




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to MeAnthony, 12-19-2006 17:47:54  
Hopefully someone has direct experience with this. My experience comes from a Nissan PU. I believe this sensor works off of resistance. With no continuity, it is telling the ECM that it is hot outside. Finding the proper sensor (or an equivalent resistor) would fix this problem. This might set a CEL, but I would not think it would let it stall completely out. Can you get the sensor from the old engine?

Let's go Mountaineers,

Aaron

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MeAnthony

12-20-2006 05:48:30




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 Re: O/T: '92 Caravan charge temperature sensor in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-19-2006 17:53:44  
He's already scrapped the old engine, so I can't check if it had this particular sensor or not.



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