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O/T mountain climbing

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n8terry

12-19-2006 07:46:54




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Lets see if I have this straight in my mind. If I decide to climb a mountain during the worst time of the year, get buried in a snowbank, I should expect folks to find me.

The sheriff said, "We failed them. We literally failed them. But we tried our best, I know that." Didn't some climbers fail to use good judgement.

Anyone know how much an hour it costs to keep a Blackhawk copter in the air for an hour?

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Jon Hagen

12-19-2006 16:26:55




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
On the evening news they said that the bill was at over $100,000 at this time,and that does not include the tax $$ for the military aircraft.



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not right

12-19-2006 16:15:56




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I have done some stupid stuff in my life and I am sure everyone has..If your not paying for it take a walk. I pray for these guys and hope for their save return. Go do chores.



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Hard Knocks

12-21-2006 04:28:13




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to not right, 12-19-2006 16:15:56  
Since the US Army is involved and I am a US taxpayer I'm paying for it.So I have a dog in this fight.



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farmer101IL

12-19-2006 15:19:44




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I believe if i accidentally start a fire in the forest I think i get billed for that? Damn it lets just make more laws!!!!! !!
Good thing we only get about 80 years on this rock, I don't think I could handle much more than that. Merrry christmas!!!!! !!



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Grub

12-19-2006 13:58:23




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I live 70 miles from Mt. Hood and we see this every year. The maddening thing is that Mountain Locating Units (MLU) are available to rent for 5.00. It's like an emergency locating beacon if you're in an avalanche or other distress. Hard-core climbers like this are so concerned about weight reduction that they refuse to carry the extra 1.5 lbs and then we spend a gazillion dollars looking for a needle in a haystack.
They would all be alive today if they had one. MLU's were made available cheap after we lost 9 kids on the mountain about ten years ago, but everyone thinks they're smarter, better, faster than the "other" guy.
But what do I know?- I still put snow tires on my car in the winter.
God bless the families in their loss and bless those guys who risk their necks looking for the lost.
Merry Christmas all. Grub

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NE IA Dave

12-19-2006 10:34:41




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I had a little flu this weekend so I spent alot of time watching the TV. Almost every chanel had live coverage. Oh sure they had to ask the important questions to family members-- like how do you feel right now that your husband / dad /son is probably taking their last breaths as we speak? And all that BS as they zoom in to see them break down.

Now I know I have a chip on my sholder, but we got fellow Americans beeing fed to the death trap overseas, and the news says-- OH YEA --5 dead yesterday, but enough of that-- now for our comercial break, and right after the comercial a expert will tell us what we should or should not wear to be in style for x-mas. (Perhaps I should have said holidays)

If I do a government job of any nature I must have my Insurance on record, bonded, and a whole lot of red tape. This includes a very detailed description on everything--including all product breakdown, as well as inspections, saftey proceedures, and if I screw up my government will assist me in my oversights and fine me so I learn my lesson by taking my business up that famous stream and putting me in the poor farm the rest of my life. Now some folks with poor judgement climbed a mountian and risk a whole bunch of lives to save their butt.

So ok I'm a real hard butt, no no no not by any means, I am the old boy on the volenteer fire dept, and EMS in our small town, help drive a VA volenteer van, (just got a attitude today) Finger prints, background check, check for insurability, and a physical are demanded. --yea been there, done dat, and even bought dau t-shirt.
So on a smaller scale, and in defence of the mountin climbing folks (and another chip on my sholder) Someone can get behind the wheel with a few to many and kill another etc. etc. The Fire dept-EMS-Law inforcment can roll out in the middle of the night regardless of the weather and then worry that (a attorney that gets to think two years) so as to figure out if they did everything not only right, but could the emergency workers have done better? I know they have Insurance, but shouldn't they have had more? They are all are required to be trained to know, why not better? Also while we are at it the person that poured the drinks had better pay for their improper judgment don't you think? Thank the good Lord the law protects the drunks rights so that if they are HIV positive, those sorry people who tried to save his life & should have ordered gloves that could not tear, and on and on---. Well the law does say they do ----NOT-- have the right to be notified if they are exposed. You bet everyone else should have known better.

Sorry everyone for venting--I feel lots better now, perhaps that ol thunder mug I been sitting on (more than watching TV) ---gave me a attitude.

Probably the laws will change overnight and all will be better after I have my nap.

It is probably sad or at least to bad we do not have laws that protect mountin climbers, they could have escorted them guys with a chopper 24-7. I'm sure the climbers are heros in someones world.

In all fairness we have had alot of warm weather here, and every year we deal with the ice fishermen on the Mississippi River that think they can walk on water---or next to it. Most of them will not get in our boat (if we can get to them), with out their fishing gear being put in our boat first. We have a saying in our local fire department--Well not all the stupid ones are in jail!!!

NE IA Dave

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Hard Knocks

12-19-2006 09:58:02




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
Why does the Army come in to help find these Idiots and not go to West Virgina to help save hard working miners trying to make an honest living? Not hard to see goofing off gets more respect than working hard does. The great thing about the USA is you're free to be as stupid as you want also free to figure a way out as far as I'm concerned.



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Davis In SC

12-19-2006 09:26:55




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I never thought it was fair, to ask rescue personnel to risk their lives, to try to find climbers that take stupid chances. If climbers want to risk their own lives, fine, but do not expect others to be there when things go wrong...



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W4

12-19-2006 09:19:18




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
Fox News said $5000 per hour for each copter.If your going to do goofy $%#!, you should be made to have an insurance policy or else make your estate pay the rescue/retrival bills.Most wives would put their foot down on nonsense that we men are prone to try if they knew they would be left destitute. W4



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Stumpalump

12-19-2006 08:40:47




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
Some countries make you buy rescue insurance before you can get a climb permit. Mt Everest cost like 10 grand just for the permit. The belief here in Colorado is "yea we pay hundreds of thousands a year for rescues but a million visitors spend a lot more than that in our state". Hundreds of volunteers jump in to help out. I used to volunteer after tornados in Arkansas and it was, I hate to use this term but "fun". Who pays the fire department when we wreck are cars or accidently start a fire? I think the cost of rescue is worth the cost to allow people the freedom to be that crazy. The closer to DEATH you get the more ALIVE you feel!
I salute those crazy brave men for trying the climb and those brave and strong enough to help them out. RIP.

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RustyFarmall

12-19-2006 08:15:27




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I have utmost sympathy for the climbers and even more for the families, but I have to agree that no one forced those guys to attempt such a thing, and if they wanted to "see" the top of the mountain, it would have been much less expensive to just hire a helicopter and fly over the top.



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RB/CT

12-19-2006 08:08:16




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
I think it was $2800 an hour for the helicoptors, and there are three. The sheriffs Dept. Overtime, (again a blow to the taypayers) was running about $6500 a day. The Army help is free. I agree though, when humanlife is at stake, the money is no object. Just hope they help my son out with his 50k medical bill with no insurance, along with the other 46 million in the US with no health insurance.

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Kelly Campbell

12-19-2006 08:47:28




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to RB/CT, 12-19-2006 08:08:16  
"The Army help is free."

Remember we still pay for this too!



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mjbrown

12-19-2006 10:45:48




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to Kelly Campbell, 12-19-2006 08:47:28  
The military guys are getting paid weather they are rescueing or doing something else. The rescue can be considered training. The helicopter guys have to fly so many hours a month anyway to maintain their flight status . Not free but a fixed cost.
I do think the climbers weren't as aware of the weather as they should have been. I was aware of an approching storm on the west coast and I'm in NY.

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Dave 2N

12-19-2006 08:02:36




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to n8terry, 12-19-2006 07:46:54  
"We" meaning society in general, does the best "we" can to rescue people who have gotten themselves in trouble under such circumstances. "We" always have. However----and to your point---when do "we" tell people that if they are about to do something dangerous, of their own volition, at their own risk, that they are on their own? How many rescue people must become involved and endangered in a situation like this? To me, $$$$ costs shouldn't be part of the consideration because money doesn't compare to lives. But---is there some line here that if crossed, makes "us" no longer responsible? Like the kayakers on the river during the June floods around here--same issue.

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Lou

12-19-2006 11:44:58




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to Dave 2N, 12-19-2006 08:02:36  
NN If they knew they might get a $35,000. bill for services, they might smarten up.



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paul

12-19-2006 10:21:16




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 Re: O/T mountain climbing in reply to Dave 2N, 12-19-2006 08:02:36  
Actors, athletes, and so on get all the attention & $$$.

Criminals, druggies, people too lazy to work get the bulk of the the govt extras, from programs to handouts to make-busy to inspections & forced $$$ regiulations we all have to pay.

Hard working folks get left in the hole.

Just saw a news blurb that 12 dead were found in the storm. Not a good news story tho, no coverage.

Anyhow, where do you draw the line, do we rescue only the sober people from car crashes, let the drunk ones fend for themselves? And so on.

It's tough to get any of this right. I can see both sides.

--->Paul

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