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Thermostat Opinions

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Aaron Ford

12-10-2006 18:06:48




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[IMG]http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i47/jaimelynnford/IM003066.jpg[/IMG]

As I was assembling the motor in my 65, I noticed the CEOK did not come with a thermostat. I have the old one, but figured on simply replacing it as I was there. I started looking for a replacement but have yet to find one. I cleaned the old one and boiled it and it came open progressively. At near boil it was full open. At room temp it is about 1/16th open. I placed it in the freezer and it closed completely.

I thought it should wait til 160* then come open all at once. Not sure where I came up with this idea.

My question is should I use what I have or keep looking? All responses are appreciated.

Lets go Mountaineers,

Aaron

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Jerry/MT

12-11-2006 09:36:14




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
No, thermoststs don't open "all at once". They open to try to maintain the design temperature and will continue to open as long as there is cooling capability left in the radiator. When the radiator can cool no more, the thermostat will be wide open and the temperature of the coolant will begin to rise. A properly operating thermostat will remain closed at temperatures less than the design point and then open as required to maintain the design temperature.

You should never run without a thermostat. It helps maintain the proper combustion conditions and the proper clearances for the engine and helps minimize the BSFC for low fuel burn. It also helps clear the oil of unwanted water and volatile components, thus making the lubrication system function properly and reduce sludge formation.
Hope this helps you

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two mile

12-11-2006 05:44:42




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
Kinda OT but the conversations about motor/engines got me thinking. Accept for electricity generated by a nuclear power plant, everything else is sun powered. Our electric comes from coal, which was originally plants, that got their energy from the sun. Hydroelectric energy is water evaporated by the sun and rained out above the dam. Same goes for gasoline, ethonol, diesel. Even a bicycle is powered by the food eaten by the rider, which got its energy from the sun. Just not sure about D cell, or AA batteries.

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kestrel

12-11-2006 13:47:20




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to two mile, 12-11-2006 05:44:42  
Hey, don't forget sun generated wind power. Unequal heating of the earth's surface propels my sailboat any where I want to go. (just takes a while)

As for the motor/engine debate here, If OLD says something...anything, you don't question it. Any man with that many tractors and that much knowledge, has the right to define any gadget.
If OLD calls it a schmotor...it's a schmoter !



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dan hill

12-11-2006 04:13:32




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
Should close completly at room temp.



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Bob

12-10-2006 19:42:49




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
Boy, that's an old thermostat! (It's a bellows type, instead of a newer-style "wax pellet" type.)

1.) Thermostats open slowly as they approach their temperature calibration point. They "modulate" to hold engine temperature constant.

2.) When installed in an actual engine, the operating point of the thermostat is affected by the pressure in the cooling system, and the pressure created against the thermostat by the force of the waterpump trying to move the coolant. So, it will act differently IN USE than it does in an open pan of water.

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Gerald J.

12-10-2006 19:41:16




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
It should stay CLOSED until nearly 160. Then it should open. When it opens gradually, its faulty. One on my 4020 did that a couple years ago, it started creeping open about 110 and kept the engine from warming up. The new one stayed closed until nearly 180, then opened.

Gerald J.



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dan hill

12-11-2006 04:09:02




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Gerald J., 12-10-2006 19:41:16  
Ive been testing thermostats for 55 years and they all open slowly..They should begin to open at their marked temperature.It was common to change from 160 to 180 thermostats for winter.Cars that used alcohol anti freeze had to stay with 160s.Thermostats will stick open or shut and open early or late.The later wax pellet types give more trouble than the bellows type.Use a 2.00 stem type meat thermometer to check opening temp.Suspend them in a tin can with a wire so the thermostat reads water temp only.Heat the can on a stove or hot plate.DONT boil or put them in the freezer,Still wonder why anyone would put one in a freezer.If your thermostat tests good use it....

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Bob

12-11-2006 07:17:03




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 DAN... COLD thermostats in reply to dan hill, 12-11-2006 04:09:02  
I keep all my thermostats in northern North Dakota, where it has been know to get as cold as -40F.

With your rationality of not putting them in the freezer, do you think I should take all the thermostats out of my vehicles and tractors, and take them in the house for the winter????



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dan hill

12-14-2006 04:05:20




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 Re: DAN... COLD thermostats in reply to Bob, 12-11-2006 07:17:03  
Cant see why you have to freeze a thermostat to test it.If it is open under its marked temp its bad...



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old

12-10-2006 19:19:28




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
Got to give you a hard time on this since its a pet pev of mine. The only motor you have on it doesn't use a thermostat and its used to start the ENGINE. I alway hate it when a person says motor and really means ENGINE. Motor use Volt/Amp to work and engine use a fuel of some type.



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RAB

12-10-2006 23:31:52




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to old, 12-10-2006 19:19:28  
Sorry Old,
You were, of course, refering to an ELECTRIC motor. Motor cars were designed with internal combustion engines and steam power as the motive force, and HYDRAULIC motors have been around a long time also. The motor bit means it moves something. A steam engine doesn"t use any fuel either, for that matter.

Regards, RAB



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old

12-11-2006 08:52:56




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to RAB, 12-10-2006 23:31:52  
Well as far as the team engine yes it does use a fuel of sorts. 1 it burns something to get the steam and 2 it uses steam which comes from water which also has to be repleced/added or it will not run so yes a steam engine has 2 fuels and with out either one it will not run



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RAB

12-11-2006 09:13:29




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to old, 12-11-2006 08:52:56  
Old, get real.
Electric is made the same way!! You need a separate boiler to raise the steam using a fuel (coal, oil, gas, biomass or nuclear).

Water is not a fuel, never was and never will be.

An electric motor using steam as a fuel (indirectly, of course!). I don"t think so.

If water is a fuel, water is soooo abundant we must have enough fuel to do without oil or coal.

You can also raise steam for a turbine electric generator with solar energy.

Remember, also your engines will not run without lubrication or spark, or air for that matter. Same difference. They are not fuels either.
RAB

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old

12-11-2006 09:36:38




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to RAB, 12-11-2006 09:13:29  
On that it has to do with how you look at things. And its one of those things a person could debate on till the wourld ended and neither person would be right or wrong doing on the persons point of view. But yes water can be a fuel but its also one that isn't really used up but it come back in other forms and then returns back to water. Thats also part of the problem with and engine made to turn Hydrogen when the H burns it makes water and that causes problem in the engine or can so like I siad its a debate and it all comes from how you look at things

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Sid

12-11-2006 10:34:04




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to old, 12-11-2006 09:36:38  
Main Entry: 1fu·el Pronunciation: 'fyü(-&)l
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English fewel, from Anglo-French fuail, feuaile, from Vulgar Latin *focalia, from Latin focus hearth
1 a : a material used to produce heat or power by burning b : nutritive material c : a material from which atomic energy can be liberated especially in a reactor
2 : a source of sustenance or incentive : REINFORCEMENT

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James2

12-11-2006 07:37:27




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to RAB, 12-10-2006 23:31:52  
Old is correct. Call it a electric or hydraulic motor, but never (correctly that is) call an internal combustion engine a motor. Spent a lot of time in a big OEM engine lab and only substituted the term "motor" for engine when we were "dissing" something. For example, the engine design center had the title, "Basic Engine Division". When the lab rats felt the designers weren't doing their job very well, we referred to them as the "Basic Motor Division". Probably not that funny to many outside the engineering fraternity, but the verbal slight conveyed the message without cussing.

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RAB

12-11-2006 08:52:13




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to James2, 12-11-2006 07:37:27  
Bit like saying a square is a rectangle. Just sumthin trying to be more special and wanting to use a special name instead of a plain common alternative which means the same thing. Hogwash really. An internal combustion engine is still a motor.
RAB



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Sid

12-10-2006 20:56:18




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to old, 12-10-2006 19:19:28  
I disagree. If you are right why do we have to register cars and truck with the department of motor vechicles? I believe you are wrong on this one and here is why. Here is websters definition of motor 1 : one that imparts motion; specifically : PRIME MOVER
2 : any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: as a : a small compact engine b : INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE; especially : a gasoline engine c : a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy
3 : MOTOR VEHICLE; especially : AUTOMOBILE Main Entry: 1en·gine Pronunciation: 'en-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English engin, from Anglo-French, from Latin ingenium natural disposition, talent, from in- + gignere to beget -- more at KIN
1 obsolete a : INGENUITY b : evil contrivance : WILE
2 a : something used to effect a purpose : AGENT, INSTRUMENT b : something that produces a particular and usually desirable result
3 a : a mechanical tool: as (1) : an instrument or machine of war (2) obsolete : a torture implement b : MACHINERY c : any of various mechanical appliances -- often used in combination
4 : a machine for converting any of various forms of energy into mechanical force and motion; also : a mechanism or object that serves as an energy source
5 : a railroad locomotive
6 : computer software that performs a fundamental function especially of a larger program

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Steve Atkins

12-10-2006 19:51:49




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to old, 12-10-2006 19:19:28  
Old,you are absolutly right on this one. Electric motor. Gasoline engine.

However,I was told some years back that electric motors do not run on electricity. They run on pre-installed smoke. And when the smoke escapes the motor is kaput.

steveormary



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Bob

12-10-2006 20:58:03




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Steve Atkins, 12-10-2006 19:51:49  
I guess you'll have to explain that to the outfit that has made untold MILLIONS publishing "MOTOR" magazine and "MOTORS" manuals for car repair!

And, I guess there'll be no more MOTORISTS... what will we be know... ENGINEISTS???

WHAT NEXT, LOL!



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steveormary

12-10-2006 22:32:09




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Bob, 12-10-2006 20:58:03  
Bob,that was told by our instructors at a code seminar some years ago. Probably trying to keep us awake.

stevermary



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old

12-10-2006 19:57:56




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Steve Atkins, 12-10-2006 19:51:49  
Shoot any thing that has wires and uses Zap-U-Trons (electric) runs on smoke till you let the smoke out. Yep the Motor and engine thing has bugged the *&^% out of me ever since I learned the differance which was a long long time ago, say when I was 10 or so years old.



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Tom671

12-10-2006 18:51:11




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
I guess I better not mess with mine. I was going to check on one at the Massey dealer this week when I take the temperature gage back to them. I hope they can find a temp gage probe that will fit the housing in the head.



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Joe in MN

12-10-2006 18:28:54




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
Aaron, it sounds to me like your Thermostate is working, if it didn't open or close then it would not work, but from what you say, it's working, so you don't have to replace what's good, sort of like a light bulb... From my experience, Thermostates come in Different qualities, and if you relace it, you may end of buying a poor'er quality one. That's my two cents Aaron....



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Larry D.

12-10-2006 18:15:03




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 Re: Thermostat Opinions in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-10-2006 18:06:48  
It is the Nature of the temperature sensitive material the thermostat is made of, that will naturally cause the thermo. to open SLOWLY as the water heats up..Larry



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