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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Why does it have to be so hard?

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Youngfarmhand

12-04-2006 18:22:47




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My latest complaint is this; Why nowadays does it have to be so hard for a guy to start farming? I read this board pretty regularly and a few others, and it seems like there are quite a few younger guys out their like me. Guys who worked as hired hands and are going to school and when they graduate wanna start farming on the side. The thing about that though is that it seems awful hard to go into business. I've stated this before, but my ultimate goal is to graduate and farm around 150+ acres of soybeans and corn the only problem is in this day and age that's awful hard to do. Sorry for ranting and raving.

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davpal

12-05-2006 22:37:58




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
I faced pretty much the same deal as you and found out two important pieces of information. One, make sure you have a good job so you can pay for farming! The other thing is you will find yourself worrying about things you never dreamed of before. Is it raining enough? Now its raining too much! Now it is hailing! Now it frosted last night. It is too wet to plant the crop, too dry to grow it, too wet to harvest it, combine broke. In other words your worries will go up ten fold. It is a challenge though and that is why we do it, because we love it. I think the BEST thing a young man of your ambition can do it get a job working for a functioning farm in your area. It keeps you in the loop doing what you want and keeps his worries his problem, not yours. And you will get paid to work there. It is great fun to work on a farm at times. It can open opportunities for you too if you get your leg in the door and build trust with your boss. Lots of farmers have lazy children with different life goals that have nothing to do with farming and the farmer is sometimes looking for a partner or a sort of apprentice he can teach his trade and help and build an operation together. I had a chance to partner up with a friend I worked for 25 years ago and he was kind of bummed when I went to work for a factory for the wages and benefits. It took a long time for me to get back to the farming and it has been a challenge, but some fun too. I would get a job working for a good farm in your area and go from there. Good luck.

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mark-in-mi

12-05-2006 19:42:08




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
MSB
Your full of crap.



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nickg

12-05-2006 18:34:51




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
don't give up and give up your dream.It's better to have tried and failed than never have tried at all. It is hard to get a start on farming. Lets face it. The profit margin in farming is low, the hrs are long, but we do it because we love it. My friends and family never supported me wanting to farm. I didn't listen. I have been down the road you are on. I can only make suggestion on how I did it. I starrted out using the guy I farmed fors equip in return for helping him. I still had and do have a 40 hr week job. I hit up everybody I knew that had ground. and looked for ground a bigger farmer didn't want. I share crop that way the landlord bears some of the burden.I use farm credit services and small local credit unions for $. then finally after a couple years I bought a 67 4020 and a 6 row deere with splitters. Limit the equipment at first to just what you have to have.Have sopme one custom harvest until you can afford to have an older machine. Any money you make put back in the farm. Learn all you can about being a good buisness man and farmer. Because you are both. It takes time and patients to start from nothing. It can be done though. So hang in there.

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cockshuttguy

12-05-2006 11:59:19




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
I'd seriously consider organic farming. There is a much better profit margin and you get to do things the way your grandparents did things and I believe it is far healthier. Milk goes for $20 per 100# and I sold my soys for $18.75 bu.
You don't have to farms hundreds of acres to make a go of it. However, you do need to do things a bit different from the neighbors. My 2 cents,



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shawnspeed3

12-05-2006 09:37:58




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
I,am with chris in MO., look at other alternatives in agriculture...comodity crops are hard to compete with when you can not buy at the prices the big guys do. There are a couple of small grain farmers in my area (mid MI) that are making a go of it....but they are not selling to the elevator...they are selling cleaned corn for corn stoves, deer feed , and oats for horses, they will also custom grind feed for cows,pigs,and poultry, cheaper than the elevator, but enough to live on..the key is direct market whatever you grow,livestock,grain,vegtables ect. and if you can add value added products( minimaly processed) your operation will prosper even more.I rent out some acerage to one of these gentelman in exchange for feeder pigs/feed,I inturn market the pigs to city folk where I work and charge 1.75 live weight for the pork plus processing...they gladly pay pecause they know where it came from ,how it was treated and who processed it,(they pay the butcher and arange their cuts)beef is done the same wayexept I own my own brood cows and practice intensive grazing,raseing pasture fed beef, poultry is done in chicken tractors that fertilize the pastures after the cows have been moved to the next pasture , we are getting 2.25 lb for the chickens , and have a waiting list...So ...don't look at what you don't have ...look at what you do have and start a course from there. if you can read Joel salatins books they may give you some very good Ideas on how to make it in farming. Shawn

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Blue3992 (Northern IL)

12-05-2006 08:23:48




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
Here's something I've always wondered:

It seems to me that your land costs are one of the biggest obstacles to starting farming. Where I'm at here in IL, farmland goes for about 10 grand an acre. As you go west towards Iowa, and farther from civilization, the land prices get cheaper.

If someone wanted to start out farming, couldn't you go so far out in the middle of nowhere that the real estate prices would be low enough that you could afford the land? As long as you were near a grain elevator, that's all you would need.

Am I way off here?

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DRW(NWMo)

12-05-2006 07:48:16




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
Nobody owns land, no matter what a deed says. We just get to use it for awhile. It was here before we came, it will be here when we are gone.
I don't think anyone farms these days for the money. If you don't want to do it for free, I wouldn't do it at all.



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Chris in MO

12-04-2006 20:20:21




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 Re: Just keep on in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
I am not an expert in most things. However, I have had my share of perseverence in adversity. We have been "getting started" for over a decade. I am not the young man that I used to be, much to my regret. This however does not hinder my determination to succeed.

There are two suggestions I would make.

First, don't let the herd determine how you will farm. It is easy to get caught up in what everyone else is doing. Farming and the economy have changed dramatically in the past few decades. If it was extremely difficult to get started producing wholesale commodities thirty years ago, now it is basically impossible. In that case, why produce wholesale commodities? Look into other ways of farming. Other crops, other markets. Read everything you can get your hands on about how other people are farming. Search the internet for "alternative agriculture". A lot of that stuff may be impractical, but a lot of it makes sense. View yourself as a gold prospector. You don't have to take everything, but it is good to get an idea of the vast number of ways you could farm. You might consider your youth and lack of resources to be a disability, I don't. You could also view them as assets. First of all, you are young. You can choose a different direction than those older than you. You have got the youthful energy to push through and make wonderful things happen. In addition to this, you have a lifetime ahead of you to follow through on your chosen direction. You can make mistakes and recover and learn from those mistakes. Someone who is older needs to be more certain that things are going to work out. You could completely fail, wake up in the morning and try something different. I am a not so old 39, and I'll tell you, I just don't have the resiliency that I did 15 years ago. In addition to which, I have family responsibilities which require that I not take too much risk. Indeed, your youth can be a great asset.

As for lack of resources, this may be hard to accept, but a lack of resources can keep you from making some very expensive mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. It is wise to keep the mistakes and lessons cheap, rather than expensive. Something my parents taught me was to avoid debt. Their attitude was a rather old fashioned attitude toward credit and debt. Throughout my adult life, in the back of my mind I have thought that no banker in their right mind would lend money to me. I know that this is not true. I also know that there are many institutions which are desperate to find someone to lend money to. However, a little bit of fear can be an awesome source of protection. It has kept me from getting myself overextended when I really had not carefully enough thought what I was trying to do.

My second recommmendation is to persevere. If you want to farm, farm. Farm even if all you can do is farm in your mind while you do some other work. Steel yourself for the idea that it could take perhaps twenty or even more years to realize your dream. Just don't ever quit. Keep on going. I know the idea of a twenty+ year dream seems unattainable to someone who is young, but if you just keep going, you'll get there. I guess another way to say it is that a glacier might not move very quickly, but no one has ever come up with a practical way to stop one from moving. If you don't quit, you can't be stopped.

One additional thing. Don't get sour. Enjoy what you do. Even if you must have a different job right now, enjoy what you are doing and try to learn everything you can. The experience will prove to be worthwhile. Enjoy the trip. Don't allow yourself to gripe about the fact that you're not there yet. Enjoy the scenery on the way. Enjoy the people you meet on the way.

Just don't quit.

Okay, I'll get off the soapbox.

Christopher

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James2

12-04-2006 19:44:45




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
If it was easier, there would be a virtual Noah's flood of potential farmers which would sink the ark. Why do you want to farm? Do you like to be your own boss, have relative independence, work outside, don't need expensive/time consuming college education? There are probably 10 times more potential farmers than openings, and the country is not begging for non-organic farmers. So it becomes an issue of sacrifices. Can you stand the stress of high mortgage payments/low crop prices, or do without for many years to generate the necesary starting capital, and work a second job to generate living expenses? At this time there are enough willing to accept these compromises/pressures, without making it any easier. Perhaps not fair, but none-the-less will continue until the de facto farmer cue line is empty.

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kyhayman

12-04-2006 19:38:51




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
History tells a story that we dont acknowledge very often. Throughout history, the majority of the land has not been farmed by the people who own it. Thats always been the American dream, but it hasnt been the American reality. A few have been able to do it, those who didnt moved west and homesteaded. Between the speculators who got the water and the railroads it soon became a case again of people working the land for other owners. Even today, most of the bigger operators are doing it on rented land.

All of my really successful neighbors own less and a fourth of the land they farm.

I got started, it wasnt easy and you can too. Ive always had a second job for benefits and cash flow while I farmed. Thank goodness I did. Farming is dangerous. One of my neighbors had back surgery this spring, he had to sell his dairy cows to pay for it (no insurance), operation was 50 grand. You may have read I got hurt in a farm accident back in Oct, my doctor bills are over 95K and growing, and I was bedridden for 5 weeks. If I had depended on the farm to eat, I would have lost everything. Thankfully I have sick leave, and insurance. Thats let me hire out of the farm what work has had to be done. Plus here I am, perminantly stuck to a cane, at 39.

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RickL

12-05-2006 06:18:17




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to kyhayman, 12-04-2006 19:38:51  
be thankful you still alive. Seen other guys get into those things and the best of the worst lost his legs.



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John (C-IL)

12-04-2006 19:34:36




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
Going to buy a farm? You won't have any trouble at that level. You will need a huge down payment because none of the conventional lenders will want to deal with you for such a small deal.

Going to own machinery? Your tractors and parts will cost the same as the guy that farms 1000 acres. Your repair costs per acre will be double to triple the average.

Going to buy fertilizer, chemicals and seed? The local dealers will be happy to deal with you but don't expect the best prices. Want to work weekends and evenings? Hope that you have a cooperative dealer.

Going to borrow your operating money? Most banks will want at least 2 year's schedule F returns. Going to finance out of your pocket? THe best deals are to pay cash early.

I hate to be cynical about all of this, but I am just where you want to be. Farm 120 acres, I trade labor and machinery work with a local farmer, have a full line of machinery and work full time off of the farm. THe only return I get is a nice place to live, beyond that the farm pays for itself and I avoid therapy by turning off the phones and radios and enjoy the agrarian lifestyle.

Good luck with your pursuit, develop a plan, gather a few advisors that you can trust and show them the plan, be open minded to suggestions, find a banker that will work with you and go for it.

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msb

12-04-2006 19:32:28




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
Nothing has changed. It was that way back in 1958.If you truly want it bad enough then it will probably happen so long as you don't try to get too big too fast.Take it one day at a time.Opportunities run in cycles too.Just be ready when the better opportunity presents itself.



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nM eoJ

12-04-2006 18:37:25




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
That is like opening a hamburger stand across the street from the golden arches and selling 20 burgers per day. It can be done and you might enjoy it but it won't provide you with much to live on. Economy of scale is driving us to larger farms which have much lower costs/acre and costs/bu than I have on our 150 acres of corn, soybeans, wheat, hay and pasture.



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IaGary

12-04-2006 18:35:30




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Youngfarmhand, 12-04-2006 18:22:47  
Your right it is tuff to get started these days.

Biggest reason is the large cash outlay to put in a crop for a small return on investment.

I thought it was tuff in 74 to start but it is worse now.

In 74 I made 12,000 on 80 acres.
In 1989 I made 12,000 on 400 acres.

The only way now is start small and keep your off farm job or have help from someone else as I did from my father.

I farm 1200 acres now and I don't think there is enough profit for me to help a young person get started and have both make a living.

Enough rabbling; Gary

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Ol Chief

12-04-2006 21:37:07




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to IaGary, 12-04-2006 18:35:30  
I am not trying to expand for more profit.Just staying small to survive while exploring other possibilities such as others sharing how they succeeded by doing things other than traditionally.Call Acres USA and request a free trial copy.Phone 512-8924400.you can tell em John Cooney sent you .I am a subscriber and advocate. Good Luck



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Rexalot

12-05-2006 05:51:56




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 Re: Why does it have to be so hard? in reply to Ol Chief , 12-04-2006 21:37:07  
I think the biggest hurdle is the start up cost's involved. I would like to farm, but the cost to buy a place that has any sizeable acreage anywhere near civilization in my area is astronomical. (Try 1.4 million for 134 acres with an old barn, no house)Most acreage is selling for 10k an acre. To many people think a bare corn field is a great place for a housing addition.

Add to that equipment cost's, even for mediocre sized machines and the realization that it will take a number of years to turn a profit is kind of a deterent, and I would never be able to convince the wife... I've gotten about as far as I can go just doing hay for my own nags.

I envy those of you that are established, just in the thought your doing it. (not for your trials and tribulations)

I think it's best said "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

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