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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

One Wire Alternators.....

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davpal

11-23-2006 22:11:26




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Anybody out there ever install one of those delco 1 wire alternators that they are selling now. I had to install one on my 3208 in my white the other day and I couldn't believe how much time that whole deal saved me. I put one on my ford about ten years ago but that had to have the wires hooked up for the voltage regulator to be energized so it had technically 3 wires on it. Always works fine. This 1 wire job though was truly a handy deal. My white had a very large and heavy motorola on it that weighs about 20 lbs (no kidding) and the hole for the mount was enlongated and worn and I tried to fix it but it was pretty well shot. Well the other day it quit so I went to one of our local parts store, (I think it is Auto Value) and picked up the delco 1 wire. It was $58 dollars plus $6 dollars core charge because I didn't have a core. I got it home and the unit was much lighter than the motorola but the mounting holes were very similar. I had to take the brackets off the motor and do a little welding and cutting but got it all to fit with a perfect belt alignment in about 2 hours. I also had to take the double pully off the motorola which was no small task. It would not come off and I finally got it off with a puller. After a little modification on that the pulley went right on and it was ready to try. They have to rev up a bit to start charging but you blip the throttle and they energize. What a nice alternator for the money. Now I can run heater blower on high, radio, and 6 very bright field lights on it and everything keeps charging very well. Just sits there and purrs now. That is great piece of mind to have a good alternator on any equipment and the motorola had seen a long hard life. I would reccommend those delcos to anybody that needs a new alternator on just about any machine, tractors, farm pickups, hot rods, mud trucks, log skidders, combines, etc. I think it is rated at 55 amps which was plenty for my application. I think there may be some with over 100 amps for a higher price. Later.

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jdemaris

11-24-2006 07:02:49




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to davpal, 11-23-2006 22:11:26  
You can take any Delco 10SI or 12SI, and with ten minutes work install a $12 self-exciting regulator. When I used to use the Delcos, I'd pick them up for $15 apiece and convert them for another $12. I stopped using Delcos, however, since the Hitachi alternators are better built and more compact. On many tractor conversions, a smaller more-compact alternator is sometimes needed. Also, the Hitachis are seal and have full ball-bearing support on both ends - the Delco 10SIs do not. When Deere Co. started using Delco 10SIs in place of the more expensive sealed units, e.g. Motorolas, there were many early failures - most assoiciated with the Delco's lack of sealing against dust. Again, with part-time use tractors that's not much of an issue. And besides, you can buy buckets full of Delcos for $10 - $15 apiece at many junkyards. Many of the Delcos will self-excite without altering - i.e. one-wire hookup - but it's not practical since they usually have to rev up to 3000 RPM to do it. When you buy a pre-converted, over-the-counter one-wire Delco alternator, a 14.75 volt DC self-energizing regulator seems to be the most common choice. Depending on the pulley size used, a tractor often has to be revved up to over 1500 RPM to make it cut in. There are also many other variations of those self-exciting regulators - some cut in at a lower DC voltage, and some sense AC voltage instead. One reason that one-wire hookups are not desired in automtove use - is they lack the ability to sense the small variation of voltage - when measured at the battery and compared to a separate reading at the alternator output. A one-wire hookup nullifies that ability - but for tractor use, it's not very important.

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Glen in TX

11-24-2006 06:36:32




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to davpal, 11-23-2006 22:11:26  
Yeah used 1 wire and 2 or 3 wire Delcos. Each has it proper place too. A one wire alternator not properly built won't charge enough or at all at low rpms on a slower running older engine. So on those it's usually better to go with the 3 wire setup. Check out the Mad Electrical site and read their tech info section on pros and cons of one wire vs. 3 wire setups.

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Richard G.

11-24-2006 04:14:59




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to davpal, 11-23-2006 22:11:26  
Been using the one wire jobs for years. Put one on an LA Case, 1100 rpm, and it worked fine. Had my Delco on my loader rebuilt and converted to one wire, watched the fellow do it, took about 20 minutes. Put two on M Farmalls and no problem.
They have come down in price over the years. Anytime an old generator or alternator goes out on whatever I am using, It gets the one wire setup. Have done several for other people and are all happy.
Richard

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Bob

11-23-2006 22:40:25




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to davpal, 11-23-2006 22:11:26  
It's nearly as easy (and CHEAPER) to get a standard 3-wire Delco alterantor. The one-wire units are NOT Delcos, rather they are aftermarket conversions

The standard OEM units are almost as simple to hook up. You just need to add a little wire and a diode or "idiot lamp" to make them work.

Advantages are less cost, and a standard 3-ire alternator starts charging at lower engine RPM's than the one-wire units.

Third Party Image

A #194 "idiot lamp is a direct substitute for the diode, if you want to go that route.

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buickanddeere

11-24-2006 16:33:27




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to Bob, 11-23-2006 22:40:25  
Better yet take the voltage sensing wire back to the battery instead of connecting it to the output terminal. The regulator will sense battery voltage without the effects of voltage drop on the current carrying wiring/switches etc.



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varmint

11-24-2006 07:44:47




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to Bob, 11-23-2006 22:40:25  
so all you need is what you"r showing in the picture? not a regulator either?



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davpal

11-23-2006 23:59:10




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to Bob, 11-23-2006 22:40:25  
I actually have both versions of the alternators installed on different tractors and YES, they are both DELCO alternators. The one wire has a plug covering up the two prong outlet on the side and is energized by revving the engine up a little. After that they BOTH charge at very low rpm's , rebuilt they both cost relatively the same so they are technically not CHEAPER and for the do it yourself crowd the are much easier to insall, hands down. 1 wire makes it as simple as it can get.

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Bob

11-24-2006 00:27:32




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to davpal, 11-23-2006 23:59:10  
davpal,

1.) You are not understanding me. While the metal case of the rebuilt one-wire alternator you purchased may have been made by Delco, they DID NOT make the "innards" that make it "one-wire". The regulator and diode trio setup are non-standard aftermarket parts. (Delco DID make BIG semi truck alternators that will function as one-wire units.)

2.) You admit you have to "REV" the engine to get the one-wire alternator to charge. This can be a real problem with some of the older machines, if they have a relatively small crankshaft pulley and a slow-turning engine that maxes out at maybe 1400 RPM's. In some cases, one-wire alternators won't excite even with the engine "revved". That is why I recommend the standard 3-wire units that begin to charge at low engine speeds. They will work on ALL engine applications, saving trouble, returns, complaints, and comebacks.

3.) That being said, I'm glad the one-wire units have worked well for your applications, but I would not recommend them as a "one size fits all" solution to ALL old iron alternator conversions. If they are so great, why did the OEM's go through the added expense of the added wiring to make a "3-wire" system???

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Greg_Ky

11-24-2006 07:00:12




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to Bob, 11-24-2006 00:27:32  
My powermaster ford one wire starts charging at 600 engine RPM on my backhoe. I too was glad to get rid of the motorola with the regulator mounted behind the battery.



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Jon Hagen

11-24-2006 08:27:00




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 Re: One Wire Alternators..... in reply to Greg_Ky, 11-24-2006 07:00:12  
I use many 1 wire and 3 wire Delco alternators depending on the application, I build them myself from junkyard cores. The one wire conversion of a Delco alternator is simple and clean to wire IF the machine has a factory ammeter or voltmeter to indicate if the alternator is working. One rule is to not buy more 1 wire alternator than you need,the smaller the amp output,the lower the "kickin" rpm. A 37 amp 1 wire alternator will energize at less than 1/2 the rpm of a 72 amp 1 wire unit. Most machines that only need power for lights and ignition will do just fine with a 37 amp alternator. If the machine has only a "gen" light to indicate charge,them you are better off using the 3 wire delco alternator. The 3 wire Delco alternator will make the factory gen light work as intended,plus the wiring for the #1 exciter terminal is already present in the stock wiring harness,that with the fact that it excites at fast idle.

I buy aftermarket 1 wire and 3 wire regulators by the box of 12 and build whatever fits the application. I have never found any indication that any parts are different between a 1 and 3 wire alternator except for the regulator. The instructions that came with a box of 1 wire regulators stated that if you have a situation where the "kick in" rpm is too high with your 1 wire alternator,you need only add a the #1 excite wire to your 1 wire alternator to make it operate as a stock 3 wire alternator. The only difference being that you still do not need the #2 sense wire,as the 1 wire regulator senses system voltage internally through the diode trio.

There is a Factory stock Delco 1 wire kit designed for the 27 SI Delco alternators that fits the little 10-12SI units without modification. They consist of a special regulator and a regulator plug with a little red cap that can be inserted in 4 different positions for 4 different chargeing voltages,which seems to be of little value. I seldom use them ,as they are 5 times the cost of an aftermarket 1 wire regulator,and will slowly discharge your battery because they are constantly connected to the live battery stud. The aftermarket 1 wire regulators do not have any connection to battery power and will not drain your battery any more than a standard 3 wire alternator.

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Old Pokey

11-24-2006 12:15:20




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 Thanks Jon. in reply to Jon Hagen, 11-24-2006 08:27:00  
I wondered why some of my 1 wires would energize at lower speeds than others. Now i know. Thanks again.



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BarryfromIA

11-24-2006 15:49:55




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 Re: Thanks Jon. in reply to Old Pokey, 11-24-2006 12:15:20  
In regards to the energizing point on these alternators, if you have a steel cutting lathe handy you can make a smaller pulley. This will keep it charging at idle. If you are short on space though it will hang out farther, if useing a stock belt. There are several articles on changing over to an alternator on this site. This will help the reliabilty of your machine greatly.



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iowa_tire_guy

11-24-2006 19:36:58




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 Re: Thanks Jon. in reply to BarryfromIA, 11-24-2006 15:49:55  
Okay here is a question somewhat related to this discussion for all of you electrical guys. I converted my 47 Chevy pickup to 12 volts and instead of buying an alternator I was advised to just change the regulator to a 12 volt. It worked and I used it for years that way. So my question is would this work on my VAC since it doesn't really have a regualtor but a cutout switch? And how about my W9 International? How would I wire them?

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midlam

11-25-2006 00:04:59




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 Re: Thanks Jon. in reply to iowa_tire_guy, 11-24-2006 19:36:58  
I assume you have a cutout with an adjustable 3rd brush generator,right?
I think a person could remove the 3rd brush and bring its wire outsde the generator. a regulator then could be used.



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Jon Hagen

11-25-2006 16:05:43




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 Re: Thanks Jon. in reply to midlam, 11-25-2006 00:04:59  
You would need to move the field lead from the third brush to the "hot" brush,then connect the F terminal to ground through a 2 or 3 unit 12V regulator. I have done this,and it works to a point,but the 6 v generator is working hard to make the 13.5 V necessary to charge a 12V battery. Also,you have a better chance with a high rpm engine like a car/pickup,a slow turning tractor engine may not turn a 6V generator fast enough to charge a 12V battery. The 6V field coils also load the regulator contacts above what a 12V field would,so regulator point and resistor life is shortned.

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