Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

wood splitter pictures and comments

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
phil lowe

11-18-2006 18:39:10




Report to Moderator

Hi guys her are some pictures of the hydraulic pump and valve for my splitter ,,
I had drained the oil out so decided to put new hydraulic fluid in ,,
But still have the issue of on the end of the stroke it bogs down the tractor ,,well now it stripped the keystock on the gear shaft..man whoever made this rig ,,shaft and u-joint are two different size keystocks ,GRRRR.guess it's a kinda shear pin !!
Gonna have to get the small one cut to fit ,but I'm sure I'll still have the bogging issue .
When I bought it guy hooked up neigbors tractor and stroked it couple times ,,stroked fine ,but we didn't do it under load ..
So here I am nother big chunk of usless metal in the yard,,or another grand opportunity ,,should be fun.
Cylinder dia is 6" and stroke length is around 30" it takes approx 10 to 15 seconds to full stroke ..But big ol oak I tryed to split bogged er down till the keyway let go,but it was bogging my 40 horse ford 3000
The actuator valve doesn't appear to have a relief on it,pulled one plug I thought was it but just got hydraulic fluid coming out..
I'm thinking most of the issue couldbe fixed with new actautor valve with built in relief ,or maybe plumb a extrnal relief ,whichever is cheaper .Is the pump in the pic's an old truck pump ?? It is a fairly noisey pupm ,but I've heard truck pumps this load before ,, Tell me what you can from the pic's ,
third party image
third party image
third party image
third party image
third party image
third party image

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Oldmax

11-20-2006 05:19:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Sounds like your pump is to large for the job you are using it on . You need a pump that will pump presure not volume . the pump is stalling out before it builds enough pressure ot split the wood .and the tractor has enough power to take out Key . Weakest point on system . Try smaller pump you might try two stage or the wet sys on tractor . Thet is what I use. Works good . with the right pump you can ues 5 HP engine .

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS

11-19-2006 19:27:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Hey Phil,

Man, that's an able looking splitter. I would ballpark the pump in the 25+ GPM range, depending on how fast it's turning. If it's not geared right, I'd be willing to bet it would easily stall the old tractor at low speeds.... It's hard to say if it's off a truck or not. If it was, it was remote mounted, which is not unusual. It certainly has the capacity.
Do get a releif valve and plumb that into the line between the pump an control valve. Princess Auto may score that for you... but make sure you can get one with enough flow capacity for that pump. You may need to go to an industrial hydraulics supplier to get that as most of the Princess stuff tops out around 25 gpm. So be careful with that. The only other suggestion I would have is that you make a 4 or 6 way wedge for the splitter. You should have plenty of power for it... and that will save you time and effort if that matters. Good luck. It looks like an able one.

Rod

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan-IA

11-19-2006 10:00:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
My log splitter doesn't have a U-bolt clamp over the cylinder near the ram end, as you show in your pictures. I would be concerned about that on yours because in practice I've found that the cylinder does like to move while splitting wood. I just think it'd be more likely to break the shaft near the end of the ram (especially when approaching full stroke.)



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Don L C

11-19-2006 07:25:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Phil-----

You can make a differnt spliter..... therefore,a shorter stroke.....no binding.....

strong sharp edge,1/16" then 1/4" plate stock out each side, till about 12" wide ....you plow the wood apart just after the split.....youl only need about 15' stroke.....mine worked fine..... .Don



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
IaGary

11-19-2006 04:26:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Phil

Another fix would be to add to the hoses and connect it to the tractor hydraulics.

Maybe slower yet as I don't know the output of the ford pump.

This would elimanate the pto pump.

I run our spilter with a 1900 ford and it is fast enough but I only have a 4" cylinder which would take less volume.

Gary



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAB

11-18-2006 22:59:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
The only error not picked up (I think) is the force produced by a 6 inch ram - 40 tons.

Correct me if I"m wrong but that figure should be closer to 30 tons, unless you are working with short tons and have an over-size ram! So steelwork ratings may not be appropriate.
Of course that also reduces the force from a 4 inch cylinder, at that pressure, to a bit under 15 tons

(Pi*diameter*diameter)/4 = cross sectional area


At 2500 psi, force is 2500/2240 tons per square inch that only works out to 31 1/2 tons force.

I only point this out "cos someone designing a unit, without checking their own sums, may be misled. I always do it "belt and braces" fashion, working on the assumption that if it can be overloaded, it will.
I do note that your over-estimation will lead to 33% over-design in the steelwork, so perhaps that is not a bad thing.
Regards, RAB

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wardner

11-19-2006 00:07:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to RAB, 11-18-2006 22:59:18  
I didn't bother with math nor have I checked yours. I was just going by advertised values that the log splitter mfgs put out. I was looking at some of their printed material before building my own machine. Their prices are absurd particularly if one has unused related components and a junk pile. I like mine better anyhow. Everything is waist high and my back appreciates that.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Roy in UK

11-18-2006 22:39:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Please get a guard on that PTO shaft!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wardner

11-18-2006 20:21:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Stepped keys are available for mismatched keyways. There is no need to make one. Try an industrial supplier like Graingers or a local bearing house. Better yet, go to a machine shop and have them broach the smaller keyway to match the larger one. A good shop will have the broach and mandral and they can do it while you wait. The job is done in an arbor press and takes ten seconds.

When you reach the end of the stroke in either direction and continue to send fluid to the cylinder, you are "dead-heading". That is a no-no. Something will break. Most likely an old hose. In your case, it was the keyway.

Throw that valve in your junk pile and get one with a relief valve. They cost around $70. Make sure the setting is around 2500 psi or lower.

If your pump is in good shape, a six inch ram will produce about 40 tons. That is about double what most people run with a four inch ram. Four inch is marginal on some wood like elm. Your six inch ram should barely notice the oak you are spliting.

You have a decent sized pump if your cycle is ten seconds with a six inch cylinder.

If your transmission is running one-to-one, throw that in the junk pile too. I suspect you are stepping up the output RPMs. That's OK because the pump can run faster than 540.

It looks like you have a ten inch I-beam. That is marginal. A ten inch wide-flange beam would be more than adequate. You need to watch for flexing as it is warning you of the possibility of taking a permanent bend. A good log splitter beam will not flex. I have seen heavy six inch wide-flange beams handle a five in ram with no deflection with a log placed in a cross-cut position.

Please reduce the size of your pictures to 640 pixels. Thanks.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Old Pokey

11-18-2006 19:46:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
third party image

Looks like a vane pump. That would explain some of the noise. However that gear box in front of the pump looks like a speed reducer, or increaser. It should be an increaser. Those vane pumps can spin quite fast. That is why the automotive industry uses them for power steering pumps. In fact they need to spin fairly fast, as it takes some speed to get the vanes to seal against the bore.

I would not operate that thing at all untill you have a relief valve somewhere. If the spool valve thats on there is working good and dont leak too much, it'd be cheaper to put a remote relief on it somewhere.

Are you sure it takes 10 to 15 seconds to stroke that cylinder? Can you time it and get an exact time? That pump looks big enough to push that cylinder a lot faster than that. That is if it is spun fast enough.

I think even a napa store should have a generic relief valve in stock.

Looks like a heckuva splitter. Sure would be nice to get the cylinder to stroke a bit faster though.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
135 Fan

11-18-2006 20:41:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to Old Pokey, 11-18-2006 19:46:01  
The "energy" valve might be an auto kickout type for a log splitter. They sold them at Princess auto. The valve handle should lock in position and then kick out and make the cylinder return while you put another log in. The I beam looks a little small for a 6 inch cylinder but you'll probably never need anywhere close to that kind of pressure. The splitter looks pretty well made. Dave



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom R Ne

11-18-2006 19:44:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: wood splitter pictures and comments in reply to phil lowe, 11-18-2006 18:39:10  
Well of course the first thing you would need to do is to put a relief valve on that system.

The second thing is to take a stop watch and get some accurate extend time readings on the stroke time.

A 6 in bore cylinder with a 30 “ stroke would take 3.67 gallon of oil to fully extend it. If you are extending in 10 seconds then the pump would be delivering 36.7 GPM. If you are extending in 15 seconds then the pump delivery is 14.68 GPM That is a very big difference so you need to narrow down the actual time.

The HP you are going to need is roughly .0007 x PSIG x GPM

With 1500 PSI system pressure and 36.7 GPM you are going to need 38.535 HP
With 1500 PSI system pressure and 14.68 GPM you are going to need 15.4 HP,

How many gallon did you say your tank holds?

With no relief valve I can sure believe you are stalling out you tractor, and a bigger HP unit will build pressure until something breaks.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom R Ne

11-18-2006 19:57:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: retraction! Math error in reply to Tom R Ne, 11-18-2006 19:44:10  
Hold the phone I made a math error. The 10 second extend would be 22.02GPM and at 1500PSIG that would take about 23 HP.

Sorry for the error and I hope there is not more math errors that I didn't catch.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Old Pokey

11-18-2006 19:55:22




Report to Moderator
 Tom, could you double check your math on..... in reply to Tom R Ne, 11-18-2006 19:44:10  
the 10 seconds pump flow rate? Seems to me that the seconds for stroke and the gallons per minute dont add up. Is'nt 10 seconds somewheres around 1/6th of a minute? I'm thinking (ouch!) that the cylinder could stroke around 6 times per minute at the 10 second rate, which, to me, seems about 22 gallons per minute. ??? But, I definately have been wayyy wrong before.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom R Ne

11-18-2006 20:09:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Tom, could you double check your math on..... in reply to Old Pokey, 11-18-2006 19:55:22  
Thanks for the heads up Pokey.

I was typing the correction at the same time you posting I guess.

Would you allow me to use the "I old excuse" ?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Old Pokey

11-18-2006 21:25:52




Report to Moderator
 :-) Been there, did that......... in reply to Tom R Ne, 11-18-2006 20:09:53  
You probably caught it just as you hit the submit reply button.:-) I know I've done that before.:-) Just be sure to keep an eye on my math, and dont be afraid to have me double check it, cause likely I'll be need'n to.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy