Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

?? Bad coil

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
upred

11-03-2006 11:46:03




Report to Moderator

I have a 1959 farmall 340 that ran when I parked it a couple of months ago, now when I went to move it to another shed it wont start. I have volts to the coil but a real weak spark (around 5 to 6 volts) coming out of the coil tower, rotor turns no spark to plugs. I am thinking a bad coil from what info I have read in the archives. Thanks Rick




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
souNdguy

11-03-2006 21:54:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to upred, 11-03-2006 11:46:03  
POINTS!


If i try to start my pickup truck, and it won't turn over.. I don't immediatly check to see if the 'key' is bad... I check the battery.

Checking the coil before checking the points after letting the tractor set fallow for a while is akin to checking the key.. etc. ( ya might as well check the tire pressure too! )

Soundguy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

11-03-2006 12:53:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to upred, 11-03-2006 11:46:03  
Red, While it could indeed be the coil, generally thats one of the LAST things I suspect, I suspect the points and condensor first. This is wayyyyy y more then you need, but to save time I will simply copy n paste my complete long winded Troubleshooting Procedure. Try the easy simple n cheap things first like for good voltage getting to the coil (maybe switch is bad, see below) and then suspect the points n condensor (see below), how are the plugs??? If badly carboned up or soot coated or burned, replace them..... .... A simple ohmmeter test will show if the coil is BAD but not necessarily good cuz it can breakdown at high voltage and when its warmed up. The primary resistance measured between the lil + and - terminals would be around 1.5 to under 2 ohms if a 6 volt coil but more like 3 or a lil betetr ohms if a 12 volt, but if its open, its baddddd ddd.


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.


MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK


1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.


2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test.

3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.


John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
upred

11-03-2006 13:02:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to John T, 11-03-2006 12:53:44  
Thanks John, I just fired up the printer and will take the info out to the shop and try to determine what the problem is, Thanks



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
oldcraneguy

11-03-2006 12:05:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to upred, 11-03-2006 11:46:03  
Could be the coil, could be the rotor or the contact in the top of the cap, Im just curious...how did you come up with 5-6 volts coming out of the coil tower? I never stuck a meter there myself, volts there should be in the thousands... what color is the spark? will it jump a half inch to ground at the distributor end of the coil wire?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
upred

11-03-2006 12:09:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to oldcraneguy, 11-03-2006 12:05:42  
real weak spark coming out of the coil, barely made a spark at 1/16th inch. I used a Fluke meter and only got about 5 volts, had 5+ volts on the small terminals at the coil



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rex in Australia

11-03-2006 13:56:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to upred, 11-03-2006 12:09:08  
As John said, it could be the coil, but check clean and reset the points first before you go replacing parts. I was mechanic for many years and most of the failures was inside the distributor, not around it.
God Bless,
Rex



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
upred

11-03-2006 19:50:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: ?? Bad coil in reply to Rex in Australia, 11-03-2006 13:56:52  
I picked up new points and condensor and will start troubleshooting tomorrow, Thanks for all the help



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy