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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

On John Deeres and Harleys

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Ultradog MN

10-01-2006 17:04:25




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I was having a brew with a couple of hunting buddys and the subject of engines came up.
One guy has a Harley the other a JD B.
It called to mind a conversation I overheard one time about how each of those engines have such a distinctive sound.
I didn't really have a handle on it but promised to ask the folks on this great board.
There's 720 degrees in a "crankshaft circle" right?
ie only one ignition per two revs/4 strokes of that piston.
If I remember right a JD engine fires its two pistons about 90 degrees apart. So it goes bang,bang and then the engine turns over another 630 degrees while the other 3 cycles occur.
Questions:
How many degrees between is there between those two ignitions/explosions in an old JD B and how many is it in a Harley?
I am thinking they may be timed similarly arent they?
Would be nice to baffel my buddies with a little true BS the next time.
Thanks
Jerry

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Gerald J.

10-01-2006 17:52:57




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-01-2006 17:04:25  
Nope. JD's fire at 180, then coast for 540 degrees. Gives a better mechanical balance to keep the pistons and rods going in opposite directions.

The early JD two cylinder and the Harley have a putta sound because they use a single barrel carburetor for both cylinders and the first cylinder gets a good supply of fuel and the second one gets shorted. I've read that Victory cycle wanted to improve on the Harley but keep that sound and they found that separate carburetor cylinders improved on the performance, but lost the sound because it cured the starving of the second cylinder.

Gerald J.

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jmixigo

10-01-2006 19:41:23




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to Gerald J., 10-01-2006 17:52:57  
I don't know much about John deeres, but the second (front) cylinder on a Harley ain't starving. I've built, rebuilt, and reworked those engines eleven ways to Sunday. Stock bikes, hot street bikes, road racers, dirt racers, and round trackers. For some curious reason the front cylinder runs richer than the rear as a rule. Maybe it gets better cooling.
The "old Harley sound" came from a combonation of the firing sequence, low idle speed, and the fact that the plug fires EVERY revolution- once on the power stroke and again on the exhaust stroke.

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jmixigo

10-01-2006 17:34:08




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-01-2006 17:04:25  
The Harley pops then 45 degress later pops again 575 degrees fore the next one.



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the Unforgiven

10-02-2006 06:57:15




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to jmixigo, 10-01-2006 17:34:08  
Hey jmix, are you sure about that? On the old single coil fires both plugs set-ups, if you fired 45 degrees apart, the phony spark on the trailing cylinder would occur midway through the compression stroke. I have it stuck in my head that the second cylinder fires at 315 degrees, then it rolls 405 degrees and fires the first one again. To further muddy your waters, you have the first cylinder firing twice in 620 degrees, 45 + 575. Other that an occasional backfire out the exhaust or some swearing over a loosened bootheel, I don't think the ignition has any bearing on the sound.

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ebbsspeed

10-02-2006 09:05:44




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to the Unforgiven, 10-02-2006 06:57:15  
Unforgiven is correct on the Harley firing sequence. 315 and 405 degrees apart.



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Harley

10-01-2006 17:46:35




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 Re: On John Deeres and Harleys in reply to jmixigo, 10-01-2006 17:34:08  
Yep, and loud pipes save lives. And ifn ya can't hear when ya get home well that's just an added bonus. Well not for me of course, but that's just what I've heard. Ya she's gone now. Git-er-done, Harley



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