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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

3-wire delco alternator

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novice electric

09-21-2006 20:37:42




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I'm going to put a 3-wire 10si delco on a Farmall 560 gas. I know where and how to connect the B terminal and the #2 terminal. I'm a little confused on the #1 terminal. I know it needs somthing to keep power from backfeeding into the ignition. I could use a diode, but I would need to know exactly what to get and where to buy it. Any ideas? I know somone makes a little adapter harness with a diode already in it, but I would just like to know if there's a diode I could buy to make my own harness. Will a light bulb wired in between the key switch and the #1 terminal work instead of a diode and also serve as an idiot light? or would I also need a diode?

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Bus Driver

09-22-2006 10:25:41




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
IH used a 25 ohm resistor to limit feedback current from the exciter circuit to the ignition. It is more durable than lamps and diodes. The typical indicator lamp is about 53 ohms. I use a 44 ohm wirewound 5 watt for my conversions. Any ohm value within those ranges will work fine. Just feed the alternator from the same switch terminal that feeds the coil, install the resistor/lamp/diode between the switch and the alternator in the exciter wire.

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Glen in TX

09-22-2006 09:40:03




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
Only problem I found with just using the idiot light on some when you go with one of the higher output Delcos that has high output regulators is you could still need a resistor or resistors in the line to light or the light will be glowing dimly all the time or until you rev it some.



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John T

09-22-2006 07:05:30




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
Novice, Actually, based on some GM data Ive seen and discussions with a GM engineer, I prefer NOT to use a diode (only) but instead a current limiting protection resistor in the excitation circuit and then ONLY if she still runs on when shut down (alternator backfeeds coil) would you need to add the diode. Sure, it will work n charge fine either way (diode or resistor or both or an idiot light in the circuit) but Im an old conservative fuddy duddy who believes an ounce of prevention is worth more then a pound of cure n better be safe then sorry lol

NOTE HOWEVER Ive seen n used em ALLLLL ways (diode or resistor or both or idiot light) n never seen one go bad, but a current limiting protective resistor sure couldnt hurt nuttin n she still works fine that way so "Thats my story n Ima stickin to it" lol Ive NEVER had a problem of trickle discharge on those GM 10 SI's which in theory a diode could prevent. Also, the idiot light systems (light versus diode or resistor) sure have some current limiting protection in the bulbs resistance (which my guess is wayyyyy more then the mere 10 ohms I use) and they still work fine !!!!! !!!!!

Although its not required to be so high power rated, I use a 10 ohm 5 watt or so resistor (in lieu of diode) just cuz it may have bigger easier to wire leads and similar, although its not required to be so high current rated, I use (ONLY if needed to prevent backfeed) something like a 5 amp 50 PIV Diode.

Bob n Bob M have those excellent pics n diagrams below, but all I have is my description of how I wire them. Again, either way works fine so its your tractor n you pay your money n make your choices as they say.

Heres how I wire a GM 10SI Alternator and remember, it requires NEGATIVE GROUND !!!!! !

The big rear main alternator output terminal goes to the wire that used to be connected to the BAT terminal on the Voltage Regulator or Cutout Relay. HOWEVER if that wire wasnt already upgraded, when I convert from a Genny to an Alternator, I replace that wire with a 10 Gauge and it runs from the alternators main output up to the LOAD (NOT to battery/starter) side of the ammeter. I also replace/use 10 Gauge from the ammeters other SUPPLY terminal to the battery/starter.

The little side number 2F Voltage Sense Terminal gets connected (use a short 14 jumper wire) right up to to and with the big main output terminal mentioned above.

For the little 1R side Excitation Terminal, run a 16 or so gauge wire from the ignition switches IGN (which is HOT ONLY when ignition is turned on) terminal and in series with it place a 10 ohm 5 watt current limiting protection resistor (dont really need that much wattage power rating, but they are heavy duty built and easy to wire). Then in the rare event the tractor continues to run cuz of alternator backfeed when the ignition is switched OFF, I add in series a 5 amp 50 PIV minimum Diode. The diode must be wired with negative cathode end to the alternator and positive anode end to the switch. Again, the ratings are not that exact but about any diode over a few amps and 50 volts or so works.

Dont forget to change the battery to negative ground and the coil needs to be wired so the negative goes to ground via the distributor points and the positive gets power from the ignition switch and you have to reverse ammeter leads also if your just now changing polarities.

Good luck Ol John T in Indiana

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cj3b_jeep

09-22-2006 05:17:51




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
I'd go with the idiot light, that way at least you know it's charging.



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Bob

09-22-2006 00:49:41




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
A diode or a #194 lamp work equally well. You do NOT need to use both. If you do not desire to have an "idiot light" in the dash, go with the diode, as it is easy to tuck out of sight. I use 1N5408 diodes, which are WAY overkill, ratings-wise, but are still cheap. I have had occasional failures using the lesser PIV-rated diodes some folks use, and NO failures with the 1N5408's, and they are not expensive.

I often refer people to the MAD electrical site, as the other poster did, and the information there is GREAT.

However, on a tractor, with it's short wiring runs, and (typically) lack of electronics and high-draw accessories, most of us just connect the #2 "sense" lead to the large output stud of the alternator, as you are proposing.

So, keeping it simple works just fine on a tractor, and simple car applications, too, although there's certainly nothing wrong with the remote sensing suggested on the MAD site.

Third Party Image

Have you checked out BobM's Farmall wiring diagrams?

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Glen in TX

09-21-2006 21:14:22




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
For lots of other good info on the Delco alternator wirings check out tech info at the Mad Electrical site. A few others also:

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=4001561&a=30065733&p=60243702

Link



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souNdguy

09-21-2006 20:48:21




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
The diode works fine.. just hit a radio shack and buy one that can handle 1 amp, and has 50PIV.. put the cathode ( marked) end toward the #1 terminal.

Also.. a 194 lamp inline will work just fine too.. just like god and GM intende dthe idiot lamp to work.. trailer marker lights are great.. they hav ethe little wires already there to hook up.. usually like a buck or so at the truck stops.. etc..

A fellow here named /Bob/ makes the neato little harness you've seen pics of.

Soundguy

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old

09-21-2006 20:47:17




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 Re: 3-wire delco alternator in reply to novice electrician, 09-21-2006 20:37:42  
If I remember right the diode nunmber I use is radio shack 276-1661, but thats just off the top of my head



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