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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel vs Gas

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raleigh

08-25-2006 05:52:33




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Ok I know that a Diese Tracto uses lees fuel than a Gas tractor for a particular job, BUT really that simply a non issue for me. What is a issue is I here Diesel's last longer than gas burners. But recently I was reading a thread that someone said that working on diesel's were easier than working on gas. is this true? I have lots of experiance with gas engines from working on old cars, so I know pretty much how to work on a gas burner.

So, is a diesel engine easier or harder to work on, and maintain, than a gas engine?

thanks again for your replys

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Dachshund

08-26-2006 04:47:30




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Well - it all depends on what you know and like! I, personally, won't have a diesel ANYTHING on the place! I've HAD a diesel pickup (stinking, noisy Dodge), a couple of diesel tractors, and a staionary diesel motor. The only one that MIGHT have been worth it is the stationary. In my experience, the gassers I have had are WAY easier to maintain, cheaper to run and easier/cheaper to fix. For what I do, the diesels just don't fit in and I don't have to worry about additives, plugging them in in the winter, high priced oils, the smell, noise, etc, etc. In my crumbled opinion, gassers are better, but it's all in what you want and your operation.

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Hard Knocks IV

08-25-2006 14:16:53




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Basically if you're willing to do a little preventive work,make sure your fuel is clean,use a fuel conditioner,routinelly replace filters etc a diesel should give better service and more hours than a gasser BUT if you just let the tractor run until the air cleaner get totally stopped up,get trash or water in your fuel and all around ignore things until something bad happens then you're better off with a gasser.

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buickanddeere

08-25-2006 10:28:01




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Depends if you are comparing pre-electronic gas v.s. diesel. And the leaded gasoline era v.s the unleaded fuel era. Anyone remember 5.7 Olds diesels and 6.2 Chev diesels? Until the mid 1980's it was the norm to find gasoline powered vehicles in the shop with worn engines requiring an overbore. Now a gasser that doesn't make 300,000 is considered a dud. The gassers now run much cleaner when electronically controlled and on unleaded fuel. As for wear on ignition system v.s. diesel injection systems? It's easier and cheaper at home to spin platinum plugs out every 60,000 miles than it is to service diesel injectors. Have a look under the hood, the distributer is disappearing and there is a separate coil for every plug or two. Even if equiped with a distributer. It's nothing to go 50,000 miles on a cap and rotor. Those diesel pumps and injectors begin to wear from hour 1 as well. Plus which engine suffers worse if a batch of wrong to polluted fuel is dumped into the tank?

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GeorgeH

08-25-2006 10:34:10




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to buickanddeere, 08-25-2006 10:28:01  
Had a 5.7 (olds 88) and a 6.2 (gmc 1/2 ton). Wish I still had the 6.2.



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jdemaris

08-25-2006 18:43:07




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to GeorgeH, 08-25-2006 10:34:10  
I've still got four vehicles on the road with the 6.2 diesel. Great engines - not very powerful, but they last forever (almost), easy to work on, and parts are cheap. I see some shops now are recommending 6.2s as replacments for the 6.5 because the 6.2 blocks have thicker castings. My 87 6.2 Suburban finally bit the dust a few months ago - with 512,000 miles on it. Going down the highway at 75 MPH, with no warning - good oil pressure, engine cool, and no noise - it set up something awful. I suspect the crank broke in two. But, with that many miles on it, I'm not even going to bother pulling it apart.

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Mike M

08-26-2006 20:15:51




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to jdemaris, 08-25-2006 18:43:07  
GM wants that engine back ! That's the one good one that got away !!!!!



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jdemaris

08-27-2006 06:38:43




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 Nonsense! in reply to Mike M, 08-26-2006 20:15:51  
That's nonsense. The bad engines were the exceptions, not the good ones. The 6.2s are excellent engines - and GM did not design them (Detroit Diesel did). The later 6.5 is the same engine as the 6.2, but has a slightly larger bore and - for civilian use - a cheapened block with a thinner casting. The US military stills uses the engines in the Hummers - but not the thin-casting blocks. I've been a diesel mechanic/greasemonkey for 40 years and seen many of the problems from various perspectives. What I mean by that is this: As a mechanic, most equipment that came before me had a problem - i.e. I rarely got to see the stuff that had NO problems. People didn't call me on the phone to tell me how GOOD their stuff was.
I would, though hear stories from owners (or former owners) of tractors and vehicles that would related to "how good" or "how bad" their stuff had been. Very often, an owner's story about problems would reflect what some mechanic had convinced him of, and NOT reality. On to the 6.2 diesels. When they came out - around 1982 - the popular story was - that they were just an upgraded 5.7 (350 cube) Oldsmobile diesel. And they DID look somewhat similar. But - the 5.7 was designed by Oldsmobile and used the same bore and stoke and basic block design as the 350 Oldsmobile gas engine (crank, heads, and block were beefed up, though). It was a miserable failure and I worked on many new ones for our local Chevy truck dealer in our John Deere shop. That - because the Chevy dealer had NO mechancics that knew anything about diesels. I had nothing but bad experiences with the 5.7s - repeated head gasket failures, oil pumps breaking, Roosamaster injection pump seal and governor failures, etc. But . . . it seems that the lasts ones that GM/Olds built - as Target replacement engines - were pretty good and most problems were ironed out. Now, when the 6.2 came out - it automatically had a bad reputation. And, little had changed with finding mechanics who knew how to work on the diesel engine, or owners who knew how to use it or take care of it. I witnessed many vehicles get converted to gas because a mechanic could not figure out a simple problem - and I could give you many examples. I presently have over a dozen vehicles with 6.2s - some on road, some off road, and some get switched back and forth from summer to winter included three plow trucks. Some over 300K miles, and none under 150K miles. I've been fooling around with them since 1982. I've NEVER had any sort of premature engine failure. In fact, I've never had ANY internal failures - excepting my 87 Suburban that crapped out with over 500,000 miles on it. And, even that was probably my fault. I suspect the crank broke, and if so - it probably happened because I should of replaced the harmonic balancer at 250,000 miles. So now - I hear a familiar negative statement from you - indicating the 6.2 was a bad engine? So tell me just exactly why, i.e., what part of the engine have you found to be unreliable?

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raleigh

08-25-2006 07:44:08




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Thanks guys!!

I am leaning more to diesel 4020 instead of a gas. I talked to a bunch of people on how much it would be to rebuild the injector pump and they said around $600.00. This seem to be what everyone is saying. I guess that aint too bad really. So I am sort of leaning towards a diesel.

thanks for yalls help so far. any one else?



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raleigh

08-25-2006 07:47:54




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 07:44:08  
I'm saying the injector pump because this is the one item I'm sure I can't work on. And maybe the injectors as well....but hey, after thoes two what else is there to a diesel??



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Mike M

08-25-2006 09:29:45




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 07:47:54  
What are your intended uses ? and about how many hours a year would you expect to use it ? The gassers don't make as much power and if worked can really suck down the gas ! These are the critera I'd use. Both will last if taken care of. Our 4020 gas has 6000 hrs on it. I'm betting it has not been apart. It uses a little oil and has a little blow by but still starts and performs what is needed. I have seen some diesels need overhauled around this many hours and then others can go 10,000 hrs.

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raleigh

08-25-2006 12:34:34




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to Mike M, 08-25-2006 09:29:45  
Will start off doing a bunch of heavy brush mowing with a 6 foot Extream duty bushhog..bushes trees saplings...



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Mike M

08-25-2006 07:41:47




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
I don't think you can really compare them on a fair basis as they are so different and it depends on what your NEEDS are.

I specifically looked for a gas JD4020 for a loader tractor. To me this choice has many advantages,like cheaper to buy,don't have to mess with 24 volt systems,and doing alot of starting and stopping and short trips where it really never gets warmed up.And for snow plowing the colder it gets the better it seems to start. I don't hardly put any hours on it. So far never had a problem (knocking on wood) in like 10 years and just one battery. A diesel likely would not of given any problems either,but I bet I'd had more battery troubles. Now if you needed to run it hard and heavy I'm sure a diesel would be the only way to go.

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ebbsspeed

08-25-2006 07:36:12




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Assuming that you're talking about older tractors, rather than the new stuff, I think the diesels are easier to maintain than the gas, as there are more things that can deteriorate or malfunction on a gas engine. But as pointed out in other posts, the diesel will definitely cost you more when it is time to do a repair.



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frankiee

08-25-2006 06:41:56




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
I would say that a gas engine is in a steady slope of needing attention. The spark plugs start deteriorating as soon as they go in and the high voltage wires start deteriorating once fired up. True also with the distributor.
A gas engine is in need of a "Tune up" on a regular basis.
A diesel runs for a long time once it is started. They just run and run.
The initial cost is quite a bit more and parts are more so usually they are not selected for just occasional use. The higher cost does not justify a bit of saved fuel per year with occasional use.
The diesel is built stronger because of higher pressures and tends to last longer. I also thing the manufacturers expect the diesel will be used many hours a day so they build the parts around the diesel engine to a high quality also ( I think).
Personally I think a diesel is easier to work on because there are less things to go wrong and need replacing. A modern car engine has the O2 sensor, the MAP sensor, the computer, the..... and so on. It can be a real headache when those parts start acting up intermittently.
The diesel is a much simpler engine. I do not know car diesel engines so I am referring to ship and older tractor diesels.
As stated already, it could also be a matter of what a person is use to. I am a marine engineer so I am trained with and more accustomed to diesels. If a person were a auto mechanic, maybe they would find gasoline engines easier.

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old

08-25-2006 06:17:26




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
Sort of a catch 22 between the 2. Gas engines are easier to work on for the aveage guy and cost less to fix. But a diesel will run longer with less TLC to keep them running but when you do have to work on a diesel it will cost you 3-5 times more to fix. You can tune up a gas engine for less then $100 but a diesel just to replace/rebuild 1 injector can cost you $100 or more and the injector pump can cost up to around $1000 to have rebuilt. So you pick they are both good but each has its good points and there bad points.

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Luke S

08-25-2006 06:04:29




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 Re: Diesel vs Gas in reply to raleigh, 08-25-2006 05:52:33  
I think you are refering to something I said earlier. What I meant was diesels are easier to work on for me. Maybe not to other people. I don't own anything with a gas engine other than my weedeater. The whole idea of carberators and spark boggle my mind. With diesels it is a little simpler for me because you don't have to worry about spark. It is really what ever you are used to.



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