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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Idle vs. Shutdown

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ZachOH

08-23-2006 23:19:50




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Hi everyone,
My grandpa always used to tell me it was better to leave our JD 4020, or Case 1070 idle as opposed to shutting them off, say if you were going in the house for lunch during the day. He said It used more fuel to start it than it did to leave it run. Anyone else ever heard that? Just curious.
Thanks.

Zach




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John M

08-24-2006 17:31:30




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Wise tale! The whole concept of leaving a diesel running came about from truckers who depend on that diesel running to make a living. If they shut it down, it might now start back up! That combined with the size of some dudes, well.... you know.



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Steven@AZ

08-24-2006 07:29:18




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
How long is lunch? When working on the farm I usually take about 10 minutes to build a sandwich and then eat in the tractor - I leave it running just above idle, around 1000 rpm.

If lunch takes longer than 10 minutes, shut it off. I always let the diesels idle for a few minutes to cool down before shutting off. The gas engines maybe a minute.

I agree with the comments below about older diesels that had a comprehensive starting procedure - those would be better off running.

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Mike M

08-24-2006 07:26:13




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
I think it's more like it's YOUR choice.Do what you want to. The engine will likely hold up as well either way as long as the oil is changed regularly. I see UPS shut off their trucks gas and diesel at every stop. This has to be alot of starting and stopping in a day. This is company policy I think for safety. While the Fed ex ground fellow who owns his own truck seems more inclined to leave it run on quick stops.

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jokers

08-24-2006 07:16:17




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
I`ve often wondered the same thing, is it more cost effective over the long run to shut down the diesel or let it run for short periods of inactivity, especially when you factor in the high cost of a diesel starter(service life, finite number of starts) and the multiple batteries being cycled(service life again, increased load means greater chemical reaction in cells) for those starts. I guess that my best answer is "it depends", lol.

I know that with the turbo diesels I always try to let them run for a few minutes to cool the oil in the turbo. Even a few minutes at idle, easpecially after a hard pull or long high speed run, the oil temperature drops significantly. Overheating and coking the oil on the turbo bearings will make you wish that you gave the engine a cool down period.

BTW, the old saw about it being cheaper to leave a light on than to turn it off for short periods on non-need is mostly bs. Lightbulbs are non-reactive loads meaning that they draw their rated wattage in all energized modes of operation versus an electric motor that might draw up to 9 times it`s rated running current to start and we all know that wattage and current are directly proportional relative to the voltage.

So the answer is still "it depends", lol.

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Gerald j.

08-24-2006 08:06:01




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to jokers, 08-24-2006 07:16:17  
However, the incandesant lamp draws 15 times its running current when starting. That's why they fail most times when starting. The resistance of the cold lamp is 15 time less than it is glowing white hot.

Gerald J.



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jokers

08-26-2006 22:05:55




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to Gerald j., 08-24-2006 08:06:01  
That`s interesting Gerald, I`d never heard that.

You didn`t just make that up did you? LOL!



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Luke S

08-24-2006 06:15:32




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Once in awhile I'll hear somebody say "it is good to let a diesel idle. That is the futhest thing from the truth. Especially with today's modern engine's with high pressure common rail injection. If idling more than 5 minutes shut it down.



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dhermesc

08-24-2006 05:48:10




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Idling more then 5 minutes is wasting fuel, especially with any engine built after 1980. The exception of course would be extreme cold.



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jimont

08-24-2006 05:37:41




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Had a neighbour leave his new 4020 idleing when he went for lunch. When he returned, fan belt had broken, tractor over-heated ---- overhaul!



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GeorgeH

08-24-2006 05:11:57




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Two observations:

1. Sounds like the old argument "should you turn off a light bulb in short absents"?

2. I do believe in running five minutes at idle to allow the turbo to cool down.



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williamf

08-24-2006 04:10:43




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
And then there's the Directv guy who was here yesterday. Wound up spending the whole afternoon to track down three different things that went wrong at once. (We get kinda lumpy electricity out here in the swamp.)
He left his (company) van running the whole time, AC issue, I think, at 98* in the shade.
That six dollar a month service plan looked really good to me all of a sudden.
Wm



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MarkB_MI

08-24-2006 03:32:14




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
With 3 dollar a gallon diesel, I think I'd shut it down. It certainly does not take more fuel to start an engine than it does to run it. However, there is a tradeoff, since there is a certain amount of wear and tear on the engine and starter when you restart the tractor.

Leaving a diesel engine idling for more than a few minutes is a bad idea. You risk oil dilution from unburned fuel.



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JDknut

08-24-2006 03:40:54




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-24-2006 03:32:14  
Engine temperature is the operative concept. If the engine can idle and maintain a high enough temp then there will not be as much carboning up and other damage. A lot of fleet operaters have a do-not-idle-more-than-five muinutes policy, and a lot of the truck computers even monitor idle time to rat out drivers that violate the policy. Even famous author John Steinbeck even weighed in on Diesel engine idling policy in "The Grapes of Wrath", when describing the Caterpillar tractors that tore down the poor Oklahoma farmer's houses, the drivers would keep them running while they had lunch because it took less fuel to keep them running "..than to heat the Diesel nose for a fresh start."

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doogdoog

08-24-2006 01:23:11




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 Re: Idle vs. Shutdown in reply to ZachOH, 08-23-2006 23:19:50  
Aloha, In the old days, some tractors had to use pony engines to get them started, so they were never shut down at lunch. Some tractor engines started with gas and then was switched over to diesel and these were kept running also. If the engine starts directly with diesel, then I would turn it off especially with the price of diesel today.

Mahalo,
doogdoog



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