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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again

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IA Roy

08-08-2006 19:49:51




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By the time I got the bolt out, I had added up about 4 ft of extensions. I got a replacement trans for the 91 Park Ave. The pan on one says 4T60E and there is a "713" cast on the bell housing. The other one says metric and has a "711" cast on the bell housing. I got the replacement from a "good" boneyard. They appears to be identical. What is the difference? The reason I ask is that I dropped the replacement one about 6 ft and broke off the steel pilot hub that the Torque Converter fits on. I dismantled the burned transmission without breaking anything on it and would like to transplant the guts if they are the same. If they are not, I can probably press out the steel pilot hub from one and back into the other. What is your opinion?

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IA Roy

08-09-2006 21:01:51




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
Sorry Allan in NE. I spelled your name wrong and got the abbreviation wrong for your fine state. I did take your advice and got another transmission today. They had another one on the shelf at the boneyard. At least these aren't as expensive as the Ford I put in a Contour last year. It is bolted onto the engine and all the other things are left to do.

I preloaded the hidden bolt into the block bolt hole with a socket and enough extensions taped together to reach out beyond the end of the output housing before installing the transmission and all I had to do was tighten the bolt, got it first try. I had to remove the oil filter to get the bolt out. It was directly in line. The crossover pipe was not necessary to remove that year, the book said it was necessary in earlier models. Wish me luck on the completion on the project.

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coflyboy

08-09-2006 11:05:11




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
I don't mess with cars much any more but I also have a 91 Buick which I keep in 'cherry' condition.
The transmission shot craps so I took it to my favorite Buick garage to have it fixed. My mechanic told me to not even consider fixing that transmission as it was not that good in the first place and they couldn't get all the parts for them. He said to install a newer version that was much better and he would guarantee it as long as I owned the car.

An arm and a leg later I got the Buick back.

I'm sorry I didn't get more and better information about that transmission but there appears to a problem with the 91s.

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Allan In NE

08-09-2006 05:50:53




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
Roy,

Sure gotta admire your spunk; that sounds like something I would do. :>)

However, there were about a million running changes that GM made to that 440T over the years and the odds of it working right when ya get done are just about nil because parts out of one are gonna be totally different from that of the other.

My gut instinct wants to tell you to go to GM and get a SERTA replacement unit for your car. Trouble is, the thing will cost more than the car is worth.

Guess what I'm saying is tho, you need to install a "known good" unit because unless you've spent a lifetime working on automatics and if you've never been inside one of these bearcats before, I can just about guarantee you that it is gonna fail just as soon as you fire it up.

The 4T60E is the easy one; the one that says "Metric" on the pan is a witch with sharp teeth. :>(

Sorry, that's as honest as I can get.

Allan

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Brokenwrench

08-09-2006 06:53:10




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to Allan In NE, 08-09-2006 05:50:53  
Yeah, you`re right. I missed that about the difference in the pans. Must have gotten a 440 from the bone yard. Gonna have to stay with a 91 or 92 model year, if trying to find another used one. 90 is a 440 and 93 added a PWM solenoid. I`m glad I`m not the only who has a dislike for the old 440. They are a pretty decent tranny, but everythings a pain in the butt to work on. Need about 20 different sockets just to get the valve body off. The thing that kills me is they give you less book time to rebuild a 440 than a 4T60E. Figure that one out. Brokenwrench

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Brokenwrench

08-09-2006 05:47:29




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
Hello Roy, It`s hard to go by case casting numbers, even the GM parts guys can`t tell you what they mean. If I follow you right, you dropped the used tranny, want to disassemble both and put the guts in the burnt out one. If you`re gonna tackle that, you may as well get an overhaul kit, cause you`ll ruin the channel plate and valve body gaskets for sure. I don`t know how familiar you are with these units, but their not a real quick easy tranny to work on. If you haven`t done one before, the likelyhood that you`ll miss something is pretty good. That`s not an insult, just the GM front wheel drives aren`t like anything else out there.
I would suggest, cutting your losses and finding a different used one. The 91 is the early 4T60E, at worst, you may be running alittle different gear ratio, or stall speed. In 91 the computer shouldn`t pick it up. In some of the later ones, if the gear ratio was changed, the computer would think the tranny was slipping. BTW you don`t want to press out the converter reactor, it`s bolted in from the front.

Whatever you do, I definately agree that you don`t want to mess with much in that dropped tranny. I`ve seen em drop on one side and crack on the other. Plus there easily could have been damage to internal parts as well.

Jsut wondering, how did it fall to break the converter reactor? That`s pretty beefy, and it`s tucked way back in the bellhousing.

Good Luck, maybe Allen will jump in with some sound advice for ya. Later Brokenwrench

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Allan In NE

08-09-2006 05:56:48




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to Brokenwrench, 08-09-2006 05:47:29  
Mornin' Guy,

I had a hard time trying to find the words to tell him to just "stay outta there". :>(

You're right. A guy just about has to work on 'em every single day not to "miss" something, not to mention all the special tools it takes to rebuild one.

Just R&Rn' the things is a total nightmare. :>)

Allan



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Bob

08-08-2006 22:39:10




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
Throw the junk tranny you dropped in the junk pile, where it belongs!

Some years ago, I had the pleasure of dealing with a C-6 Ford that had a shake or vibration.

Only after a big ordeal with it, did I hear the last guy to work on it had dropped it off of his tranny jack.

To make a long story short, I finally figured it out. One of the drums was sprung from the fall, and was causing the shake. You could see the wobble, spinning it by hand while between "centers" on the lathe.

Don't set yourself up for problems like that.

And, I really don't think you have realized what's involved in the damage to the torque convertor stator splined stub.

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bradk

08-08-2006 20:48:29




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
I don't know about Allen's opinion,but after dropping a GM 440(4T60-E) 6 feet,I'd be pretty leary about puttin' 'er in.
You're taking a chance by installing a junk yard tranny the way it is.Now the odds of it working after all your labor has decreased considerably.
Just my thoughts. ~brad



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steveormary

08-08-2006 20:14:33




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to IA Roy, 08-08-2006 19:49:51  
Allan;hope I dont make y"all too mad. Answer the tranny question first.

My question. The dish antenna dude says I am not getting good reception because of tree branches growing into the signal path. Is tis so? Or am I being bamboozled. Landlord dont seem to want to trim the tree so may have to move dish. Right?

steveormary



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Allan In NE

08-09-2006 06:08:02




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 Re: Hey Allen in NB Buick Transmission again in reply to steveormary, 08-08-2006 20:14:33  
Hi Buddy! Been wondern' where you were at! :>)

I dunno. They told me the same darned thing, so I cut down two grand old trees in the signal path.

Didn't make a fig's worth of difference.

I've seen dishes pointed directly at a steel building wall and work just fine. Mine is out in the country miles from any other living soul and can't get it to work right.

They are sending me another box today; we think the problem is in the satellite conversion switches. I'll let ya know what we find out.

Allan

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