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OT - Bears

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Bill from Ma

08-01-2006 07:04:51




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So the Mrs. was always pretty much anti-kill-anything, (like alot of women) until a coyote took the neighbors dog last summer.

Both families were either still outside or had just come inside which made it alittle more of a concern, it wasn't like at 5:00am or something. Neighbor saw it happen.

So my wifes family has a property in the mountains of NY and Bears are now quite common. Saw my first Bear scat on a trail maybe 500 yards behind the house last weekend.

Carrying a pistol is impossible legally with my being a MA resident. Rifle/shotgun might be legal to hike with sometimes but may flip out alot of other people.

Bears are becoming an issue in the Boston MA suburbs but does not seem as risky as walking into one on a hiking trail in the mountains (might just be my own comfort level being at home?)

I do not want to get a dog but that may be our best option.

I know the odds of being attacked are low but a bear took a child out of a stoller right at a cottage door last summer in the southern Catskills & a group of swimmers were attacked this summer in NC or SC or was it TN this year.

What do you-all living in rural areas do?
Thanks,
Bill

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Billy NY

08-01-2006 19:46:30




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
It's good to hear and learn from people who live in areas where there is an established bear population, as I'm aware of their expanding territory here, we had a 200+ black bear across the street recently, the D.E.C. agents tracked and killed it, not sure why, they must have felt he would have been a danger. This is a new thing for us too, now most people here feed the birds, I've tossed a lot of old frozen meat, leftovers, you name it, out into the back yard over the years with no problems, the local family of crows usually appreciates it, I've enjoyed watching some of the critters come by, hawks, vultures, fox, and the darn coyotes, who have really made a presence here, but they come and go. Every night I'll toss a quarter chicken carcass out on the lawn as I seem to prepare a lot of poultry on the grill lately, quick and easy. In the morning the crows come and take it, seems like even the coyotes have enough, they don't bother to come close except when there is a deer carcass left out during hunting season. It is obvious that these habits will have to change as attracting bears to the place is obviously not a good thing, the one across the street is evidence of that. It's amazing that so much wildlife has come back, we never had geese, now they are a pain to deal with, bobcats, bear, deer ( never saw deer as a youngster here ) wolf and mountain lion, it won't be long before these are confirmed in the north I'll bet, sure is quite a bit of area for them to roam in the adirondacks and surrounding areas, trickling into our area, many areas cannot be developed, ravines, valley's and most wildlife take advantage of these passages, even the moose have been through here.

I've often wondered what would be an effective self defense weapon against a bear or cat if encountered in the woods or elsewhere, if he sees you first I can imagine your time is too short to make a draw with a handgun or set your rifle sights on his vitals, as even hunters of dangerous game test the odds I think. Assuming the spray might be quicker, I'd still want a firearm, for peace of mind. At home I'm never far from one if I think about it, carefully hidden what I need, and safely stored extra ammo, with some spare home defense always nearby but never loaded. Not to live in a paranoid state either, one can get a little carried away and insecure, but just for peace of mind, sane thing when hiking, or in the field so to speak, seems normal to carry something and adequate ammo, it's another tool in the chest, if ever needed it's there, with the urban sprawl, and spread of crime, seems to be good measure now. I like the .22 revolver, fun to plink with, can carry lots of ammo, seems to be quite accurate with CCI stingers and not a lot of $$ to shoot. Not very effective against big game though.

It seems that most of these creatures want nothing to do with humans, except when fed by them, or they are protecting young. The cats must really not like humans as they are sneaky I've observed bobcats from my stand recently and the slightest disturbance, he's bouncing in the air and gone. The thing with large cat is he's going for your throat for an immediate kill, if stalking you like prey, that is gonna be hard to deal with if you don't see it coming. It's shocking that these predators have attacked people, like most animals they run when seeing a human, sometimes the tables are turned, guess it's good to be educated and aware of how to defend yourself if you are in an area where these critters live.

One of the strangest tales I've ever heard was on Discovery Channel, some fellow in Africa, possibly Nigeria, sleeping in an adobe style house, became aware that a cat was outside, a Lion, she poked her head in the window, shortly after she leaped through the window and had the guy pinned, only thing was she was so old her teeth were not effective anymore, I can't recall if he killed it with a knife or warded it off somehow, can't even imagine, I'd be putting some bars on those windows!!!!

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coflyboy

08-01-2006 16:41:35




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
I've lived in the CO. mountains forty years in a town where there are black bears We enjoy seeing them and no one has ever been hurt by one.

There are some rules though as they are obscessed with food as they hybernate much of the winter and must put on enough fat to last.

Never feed them. If you do they will come back and they then expect to be fed and might go uninvited into your house and raid your refrigerator.

Never leave out garbage, pet food, or bird feeders.

Never mess with their cubs.

Bears have been around here at lot longer than people and even though we are indeed at the top of the food chain, most people around here just enjoy seeing them. If one does get too familiar the game and fish folks trap and haul them away.

Mountain Lions are another story, they will attack and carry off small children. We have lions too but treat them differently. They follow the deer and we have a lot of those.

I have a .357 next to the bed and would use it if a bear got crazy.

I am more afraid of the two legged type preditors. I'd use the .357 on them too if they got too crazy

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Matt from CT

08-01-2006 16:03:28




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Just shake my head?

I could get a permit fairly easily for my state (Connecticut)...jump through the proper hoops in the proper order and they'll issue it.

I could then pay the $$ for reciprocity in MA...IIRC it's like $75/year. That again is pretty straightforward.

I could then beg and cajole RI to issue a reciprocity permit as well...although they're not as critical as I could just pass through the state OK. But couldn't run an errand or do business there without it. Again, like $75/year.

PITA to keep knowing who to send what renewal where when and how much to make the check out for.

Add to it my last full-time employer had a no-weapons-on-company-policy it was just a bigger PITA then I was willing to deal with for the few times I feel uncomfortable.

As Vermont has no CCW permits (basically any non-criminal may carry)...don't have to worry about them.

I'm not familiar with the regs for reciprocity for NH & ME with MA.

As I'm sure Bernie knows, getting a Class A (Concealed Weapons) permit is highly at the whimsy of the local police chief. Some will issue a "All Lawful Purposes" permit at the drop of a hat.

Others if you wrote a paragraph explaining you fear beers while hiking...would turn around and issue you a Class A permit limited to allowing you to carry while hiking in the woods. Yes, the Police Chiefs could write any restriction they like -- you may carry this gun anywhere, during blue moons in leap years...

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Craig in MO

08-01-2006 15:24:42




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Pepper spray, pepper spray, pepper spray. Get the 15% stuff or the bear formula. I hike many a miles in remote colorado and wyoming and always saw them before they saw me so I gave them the trail and went around. I did look into a S&W airlite 357 but decided I really didn't need that. I was actually much more concernrd about the mountain lions. They like to sneak up on you.



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Bill in MA

08-01-2006 15:38:26




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Craig in MO, 08-01-2006 15:24:42  
Most of this is for the Mrs. peace of mind. Especially as we start to get our four year old son hiking. He normally is making so much noise any self respecting animal will give us a wide berth. I have been telling her for a few years having a bear problem is about the same as getting hit by lightening, but both do happen.

Occasional rumors of big cats in the north east but none have ever been confirmed.

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VaTom

08-01-2006 14:06:27




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Bill, we live in what you'd consider a "rural area", on top of a mountain, no neighbors, 1/2 mile driveway that rises 400ft. All forest.

Bear scat is frequent here, sometimes within a stone's throw of the house. See a (black) bear every year or so. I spend a lot of time in the woods, rarely armed with more than a chainsaw. Looking for a turkey would be the exception.

Two weeks ago we had a bear come on the front patio and poke his nose against the door glass. Guests facing that way sure were surprised. When I went for the camera it took off so I got a pic of his butt. 3-4 yr old.

Bears aren't an issue here except for anyone dumb enough to leave pet food out. Otherwise they're just curious. I'm sure they always know where I am in the woods, while I rarely see them.

Living rural, we're armed. Wife knows why. But other than for a tomato-thieving groundhog or two we've never needed a gun. Had more trouble with a large buck standing on the patio munching hostas last year. Gave it 2 warning shots on consecutive mornings and it apparently got the message. 3rd time and it was going down. We're not fond of venison or I wouldn't have wasted the first two rounds.

Bears aren't an issue. Guys who pay to take deer here are always disappointed that I won't allow them to take a bear. I'm a little sympathetic with your wife. I don't want to kill anything I'm not interested in eating. And on my property won't allow anybody else to either. Coyote would be the exception, but haven't seen one.

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Joe (Wa)

08-01-2006 10:36:04




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Wife is anti-kill? You can out-run her right? Take her hiking with you. If you meet up with an ornery bear, you only need to out-run her not the bear.

Might even prompt some attitude adjustment on her part. A win-win situation all around.

Joe



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someone used my name

08-01-2006 09:20:22




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Hey Bill, Out here in the west, bears are definitely a concern, especially ol' griz... someone forgot to tell them to stay in the park & we've had increasing numbers of encounters in recent years. The general consensus around here (including game & fish folk AND those who've been attacked) is that bear spray is far more effective than a gun (even a handgun!) Problem is, when a bear attacks, you'll probably have only a few seconds to react before you're down. If trying to defend yourself with a firearm, there's no way to shoulder (or draw) the weapon, take aim, and fire effectively before the bear can get to you. The idea with bear spray is that when you're in bear country, you should have your bear spray in your hands while walking... if threatened, you'll have time to pop the safety off and spray before being mauled. There has never been an instance where the bear spray failed to repel an attack when properly used...and... it's LEGAL. (might even work when walking the back streets of Boston... not sure it would work on the drunk drivers though!) HTH
Regards, D.L.

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Bill from MA

08-01-2006 12:04:41




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to supergrumpy, 08-01-2006 09:00:19  
They all scare me but noone has a better system.



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Midwest redneck

08-01-2006 14:02:21




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to DNC, 08-01-2006 09:31:07  
That *itch is UGLY!!!!! !!!!!



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Lou

08-01-2006 10:04:05




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to DNC, 08-01-2006 09:31:07  
Your making fun of the next commander and chief.



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IH2444

08-01-2006 10:26:21




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Lou, 08-01-2006 10:04:05  
Lou, You mispelled thief.



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hayray

08-01-2006 08:32:26




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
We have a lot of bears here in Michigan. When I go out in the woods camping I always have a large framed revolver with me but I have never seen one up close while on foot. They are pretty shy in our state most of the times and we only get a mauling once every couple of years. They run them real hard with hounds here and can train starting in the summer, so they are on the run a lot.



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Midwest redneck

08-01-2006 14:03:27




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to hayray, 08-01-2006 08:32:26  
Where in Michigan are you at?



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hayray

08-02-2006 05:44:27




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-01-2006 14:03:27  
I am in Livingston County but I go up north a lot camping and hunting. We had one bear down in this area a couple of years ago wandering around and one was just hit on I-75 by Flint this summer.



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Bill from MA

08-01-2006 12:08:31




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to hayray, 08-01-2006 08:32:26  
I agree that is the easiest solution but pistol permits don't cross state lines.

We are going to sign up for the safety course, think about our state permitting process and keep working the issue.



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dhermesc

08-01-2006 08:10:13




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
To be honest I'd be more afraid to walk the streets of Boston late at night then a rural trail. Between the muggers and a drunk driving Kennedy's its hard to tell who might kill you first.


Walk with a dog that has alot of bark and that you can outrun, he'll be like the rodeo clown that gets between the rider and the bull.



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dej(JED)

08-01-2006 07:41:23




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Here in Western, Pa. bears are getting to be quite common and we aren't sure why. In the last couple of years I had only seen a few small ones, but lately I have been seeing some 400 lbs. plus ones. The thing about it is , they aren't the least bit shy. Our illustrious game commission is probably dropping nusiance northern bears in our area. Heck I am only about 25 miles north of Pgh. and it is hardly rural around here. I will be buying a license this year becuse if I remove one that will be one less. We don't need them around and it is just a matter of time before someone will be mauled.

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Rick (IA)

08-01-2006 07:29:00




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Bill from Ma, 08-01-2006 07:04:51  
Can't speak for others, but here in IA it's pretty common to carry a truck/trunk gun. I've got a little Russian M38 carbine that's my coyote medicine that goes pretty much wherever I go. If I go walking out in the woods, I've usually got a .45acp M1911 on my hip or a S&W J-frame in my pocket.



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504-1

08-01-2006 15:20:23




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to Rick (IA), 08-01-2006 07:29:00  
WE voted for "Right to Carry". Voted out the people that said we could not. Missouri.



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Bill of TN

08-01-2006 19:10:16




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 Re: OT - Bears in reply to 504-1, 08-01-2006 15:20:23  
Just call 911 and the leo's will appear out of thin air and protect you.....

The people of Mass. have been conned for many, many years.....I've stood by and shook my head wondering what the heck they've been thinking.....

Your gun control laws didn't get that way over night.....and they won't get fixed over night.....but until the people realize they must provide for there own security then the process won't start.

Ben Frankin, said something to the effect that if you sacrafice liberty for security you get neither..... .that's what appears to have happened up your way.....

WHEN THEY PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS!

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