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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

cut out to voltage regulator

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bill in Md

06-22-2006 09:22:41




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i just converted my 52 wd form charging cut to voltage regulator. i polorized it from arm on gene to batt post on VR. before starting enging i am getting a reading of 6.3v on the battery. amp meter before starting showing zero, turn on head lights showing slight discharge. start engine, high idle; i get 6.5 v. at the VR. Amp meter showing slight + charge. turn on headlights amp meter goes back to zero. unhook the batt post on VR and get a reading of 7.5 v. question is, why are my reading so low even with the headlighs on? all wires are new and the battery is good. can someone help an idiot out.

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bill in Md

06-23-2006 06:41:56




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 09:22:41  
the reason i went to the VR. is: after starting and cutting grass i shut it off went inside. when i came out the amp meter had melted down. wire to from the amp meter to starter completly melted. nothing else (wires) were bad. i was assuming it to be the cut out points staying closed. ordered a VR from napa. thought i was ordering the same part (cut out) at $60 nonreturnable part i am stuck with it for now. is 25v with the field grounded to low? what is the third bursh thing you are talking about with the gene. how do i check and adjust. it is a delco remy gene. when i rewired it, as a percaution, i installed a inline fuse from amp meter to battery line. that way i just pull the fuse when not in use.

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J Schwiebert

06-23-2006 07:21:08




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-23-2006 06:41:56  
A $5.00 diode would have done the same thing. Send me a phone number. What part of MD? Sounds like my one son will be transfered there again. Have you taken the generator off? Have you taken the end off the generator. I don't have the test specs right now but a voltage regulator model and a generator model may help before it is all settled. J.



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souNdguy

06-22-2006 21:29:12




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 09:22:41  
Make sure you connect field from genny to regulator

make sure regualtor is an A circuit job.

With it all hooke dup.. grounding the field shoul make quite a charge at mid throttle.. if not.. I'd say genny is shot..

The genny on my Allis G is only a 7a job.. these things aren't power houses.. and they do wear out..

Carry it to a mom n pop rebuilder shop

soundguy



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bill in Md

06-22-2006 13:44:37




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 09:22:41  
ok, here is what i got. grounded to field on the gene, and read volts at the arm post, 25v. hooked it all back up with a ground from the gene to frame. volts still at 6.2. unhook the batt wire from VR. i get 7v at the VR. i left the head lights on with the engine off for 15 minutes and watched the volts at the battery. no change 6.2. the tractor is mag fired, so it is not using any power to run. maybe the battery is strong enough not to let the VR open and charge.maybe i'm looking too much into this.

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John T

06-22-2006 16:50:05




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 13:44:37  
Sounds like the genny is just weak period, maybe from worn brushes or the brush hold down spring assemblies are stuck/corroded and if its an adjustable 3 brush genny, I would be setting it for max charge n try it. Right after cranking the battery ought to be down enough that I would expect full charge for a while at least out of the VR (which dead grounding the Field provides).

The only true test (if battery is okay) is what the battery voltage is doing and a good genny n VR ought to raise it from 6.3 volts to at least 6.5 n more indicatimg its charging. Those open circuit genny voltage tests dont tell me much.

The only other VR by pass test is to jump the VR"s internal Cutout Relay when shes running by momentarily connecting its BAT and GEN/ARM terminals together to see if she charges and the battery voltage raises then and if so but NOT otherwise, then I suspect the VR"s cutout relay isnt ever closing.

Still sounds more like a weak genny for now, check for a 3rd brush and adjust it to max charge n try her with the gennys field dead grounded and the internal cutout relay by passed n if still no charge (IF battery is okay) after cranking and light use which ought to run the battery down a bit, I suspect the genny is weak.

You could also remove the belt n try to motor the genny n see how it performs??

John T

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J Schwiebert

06-22-2006 15:06:30




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 13:44:37  
O. K. Let us start in the beginning> Why did you go to a regulator? Second of all did you put an ampmeter in the circuit to see what the generator is producing. Also if you have a bad connection somewhere and the extra resistance is "tricking" the regulator into tell the generator the battery is fully charged. Like I asked and John T commented on also what is the internal condition of the generator? Does this generator have a bushing for a bearing on the back end? I had one once that drove me nuts, the bushing was bad and the armature would not center on the field coils. It did not charge well either. What is the model of the generator? Just for fun, how many Ohms do you have between the light switch and the head lights?

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John T

06-22-2006 09:59:10




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 09:22:41  
Bill, for now, Im kinda thinkin along the same lines as JS, I wonder just how well the gennys is charging?? When running open not loaded Id expect the gennys output to be much higher then the 6.3, but when coupled up to a load (battery n lights n igniton etc) thats the true test and when it needs to maintain a voltage HIGHER then the battery to charge it. It needs the energy to raise the battery voltage to the 6.5 to 7 or so range to charge it, NOT put out 7 volts unloaded but drop to near battery voltage when coupled up to it.

First thing Id do is by pass the VR functions to see just how well the genny charges then at the max possible charge condition. To do that dead ground the gennys Field post to the case n see how many amps she charges then????? ?? If its still low I suspect either the genny is weak,,,,, ,or the belts loose,,,,, ,,,,,or the genny dont have a good frame ground. If it charges MUCH higher then (with gennys field dead grounded), that tells me the genny is okay so the problem is either, the VR,,,,, ,,, or the wire from Field on genny to Fld on VR is bad,,,,, ,,, or the VR isnt well grounded to the genny.

This assumes the battery itself is good and capable of accepting a charge, is it okay and/or has it been load tested????? ?

If its a three brush genny and you convert from a cutout relay to a VR, I set the third asjustable brush to the MAX charge position which is as close as possible to the other brush next to it. If its far away that limits the gennys output.

JS had good tips on basic genny maintenance, the commutator must be clean n bright, the brushes not worn too low and the brush hold down spring assemblies need to be clean n free so they hold the brushes tight down against the commutator.

Let us know

John T

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J Schwiebert

06-22-2006 12:01:49




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to John T, 06-22-2006 09:59:10  
John T. Thanks for the compliments. I did that answer rather quickly, waiting for the granddaughter to get ready for me to take her to camp. Sometime I need to get in touch with you. I did have your e-mail but unfortunately my complete -email addrees file was permanently delated. Thanks again. J.



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John T

06-22-2006 12:40:42




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to J Schwiebert, 06-22-2006 12:01:49  
jmn50@msn.com



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J Schwiebert

06-22-2006 09:26:48




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 Re: cut out to voltage regulator in reply to bill in Md, 06-22-2006 09:22:41  
First of all did you check the condition of the generator, The first thing I would do is stall with a "clean commutator" and good brush contact. Also remember before the amount of current output was controlled by the position of the the third brush and the resistor in the ligh switch. One where is the thrird brush located and what are you using for a light switch?



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