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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT. Lightning rod ???

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I Bleed Green

06-16-2006 19:17:28




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Im going to have a new roof put on my house soon. My house is old, and it has 4 lightning rods on it now. I dont see any new homes with them, and most have taken them off of their old house like mine. I like the look of them on my house. Im not sure how good the ones are that are on my house, but i have 3 old but never used ones here that im thinking about having put on my house just for looks. I know without grounding them they will not help for lightning, but is it ok to have them on my house just for looks???

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davpal

06-16-2006 21:13:49




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to I Bleed Green, 06-16-2006 19:17:28  
We have them on the farm house that I live in and we fixed and painted them when the roof got redone. It is not a hard job to run the ground cable to each of them and to a ground rod so they can do what they are supposed to. I get a lot of people that are curious about them. One of them has a blue glass globe on it and people have stopped wanting to buy it before. Yeah, ok, not!



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J.C.H.

06-16-2006 21:03:24




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to I Bleed Green, 06-16-2006 19:17:28  
I agree with Dick.



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DickTN

06-16-2006 19:28:07




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to I Bleed Green, 06-16-2006 19:17:28  
It's your house. It would seem to me that any pointy object sticking up off a roof is going to be a lightning attractor. If you want to put these on your roof, I'd highly recommend that they be properly grounded so that they can serve their intended purpose.



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paul

06-16-2006 22:28:17




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to DickTN, 06-16-2006 19:28:07  
I agree with you.

However, studies have shown that actually pointy rods repel lightening, and a truely effective lightening rod would have to be blunt topped.

For whatever little that info is worth. :)

--->Paul



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RAB

06-17-2006 06:00:11




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to paul, 06-16-2006 22:28:17  
The function of a lightning rod is to discharge the high voltage difference, from ground (house) to air, before it gets high enough to strike (as lightning). The sharp point does not allow the voltage to rise high enough; a blunt rod is therefore less effective as it may attract the discharge due to being there and available, but not discharging the charge before a strike.
Regards, RAB



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Lloyd Llama

06-17-2006 17:21:57




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to RAB, 06-17-2006 06:00:11  
Believe me - once it has been hit a time or two it will be blunt! Have taken down several communications anennas where the end cap looked like some kid had practiced arc welding on it. Also taken down several fiberglass sheathed antennas that were reduced to feather dusters. Lightning is like the 800# ape in the zoo - waht does he do? Anything he wants!!!!! !



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Illinois Boy

06-17-2006 06:24:15




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to RAB, 06-17-2006 06:00:11  
Lightning goes where it wants to... and when it wants to. It can strike next to a pole line and run the power conductors or telephone / cable strand for miles before going to ground. It has even injured people working on underground cable.



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RAB

06-17-2006 06:44:31




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to Illinois Boy, 06-17-2006 06:24:15  
That is exactly why lightning conductors are earthed very firmly; so that any electrical discharge goes to ground locally, not a long way away! Their primary function is still to discharge any charge build up BEFORE the potential becomes high enough to cause a strike due to the breakdown of the atmospheric resistance along the path of a flash, resulting in a huge instantaneous discharge of electrical charge and a lot of damage at the point of earth contact.
So, ligtning conductors are there to attempt to PREVENT the flash discharge occurring at that point. They will, of course, dissipate any effects if the flash actually strikes them.
RAB

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Illinois Boy

06-17-2006 07:22:25




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to RAB, 06-17-2006 06:44:31  
RAB,
You are correct about the theory - but that's what it is - theory.
My point is this - Lightning like any other electrical charge will find multiple (parallel paths) to ground. (Which includes a power drop, telephone or cable tv) You can bury 50 ground rods 20' deep around your house and it won't mean a thing. In fact, if your ground is the best one around (lowest resistance), you can attract lightning. I worked for the Bell system and have seen many rural farm houses, after a strike, even close to the house, in ashes that had lightning rods installed.
The theory about lightning rods is well known and they may work somewhat at dissipating a difference of potential, but they will not prevent or protect from a strike, as lightning can come in or go out on any conductor - power, telephone or cable.

Again - it goes where it wants to and when it wants to.
As for me, I wouldn't put new holes in my roof to put on lightning rods.

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RAB

06-17-2006 09:34:02




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to Illinois Boy, 06-17-2006 07:22:25  
Illinois Boy,
Thanks. Yes, I know I am right. Just try to draw a spark potential on a Van der Graaf generator with a sharp, grounded conductor close to the sphere. You can"t get more than a feeble spark, if that, if the humidity is high.
Try with a similar sized sphere as the ground link and you should be able to draw a high potential spark across the gap. Just like lightning.
Look at the post. It says protector not preventer. Nobody needs to put a "new" hole (whatever that might be - always use old ones myself, or maybe it"s just "a hole") in a roof. Nobody needs to put a lightning rod on their house. Their choice. Their choice if it is there at all, their choice if it is on the roof or a separate pole. Their choice.
Having been involved in an industry using tons (yes, tons) of explosives, we HAD to have a lightning protector on the explosives magazine. Our 300ft chimneys also HAD to have lightning protection rods. They (the chimneys) did get strikes and the magazine never once.
It has long been a proven technology to prevent or minimise lightning damage. Your industry with the well insulated cables will, of course pick up capacitive high voltage spikes from a nearby strike or worse from a direct hit. Yes, the voltage will affect devices distant from the point and your damaged devices may well cause fires in adjacent buildings to the strike by destroying very sensitive ICs and the like in the electronics of telecoms devices. Yes, if there were no phone lines there would be fewer house fires. Yes, if there were no power lines there would be fewer fires. I could go on, but I think you should be able to see there is a use for lightning rods, even if they will not prevent all catastrophes. RAB

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Illinois Boy

06-17-2006 12:32:23




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 Re: OT. Lightning rod ??? in reply to RAB, 06-17-2006 09:34:02  
RAB - It makes me so much better that you know you're right.
Well insulated cables - hardly. A little poly insulation doesn't stop thousands of volts - even if it is DC.
The fact you're missing is that those cables are lashed to an unprotected steel strand - bonded to power verticals and ground rods by NEC guidelines. Transient voltages, capacitive voltages all travel the strand and not the cable sheath (except for the old lead sheathed cable which all but non-existing today). I was at this for 37 years and know what it can do - to houses, cental offices, microwave towers, cell towers, long line sites, etc. Cables and drops have been blown in two and the ends right out of the ground from strikes hundreds of feet away. The telephone industry has done enough research to know what they're doing - and they still can't protect or prevent damage from it today.
I'm not saying that the rods might not stop some damage - but I sure wouldn't count on them for any protection. If they can't protect anything from lightning, they can't prevent squat. There are too many other paths for lightning to take.
The recent coal mine disaster in W. Virginia was caused by lightning that blew up gasses hundreds of feet down in a mine. Lightning goes where it wants to - when it wants to. You go ahead and trust them if you want to.
I guess we kind of got off the question... :)
I would not put them on my house for looks - putting holes in a new roof for that is not a good idea IMHO.

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